ADLANDS'
DIGEST
A
Free subscribed Discussion List
of
7013 subscribers
on
web marketing and promotion
supported
by Adland World's Classifieds
at
http://www.adlandpro.com
Bogdan
Fiedur, Publisher
mailto:
Bogdan@softfornet.com
Vol.
1, #100, May 25, 1999
POST AND UNSUBSCRIBE INFO AT BOTTOM
=======================A D L A N D T I P==========================
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Topics in this issue:
Sponsor Message
Word from Publisher
=====================
C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n s (3)
=============================================
1.) Paid Advertising Help
~Fiona Heares
~Doug Steinke
2.)Online Marketing Techniques and FFA links
~ Steve Angove
~ Teresa
~ Bryan Marsden
3.) Falsely Accused (Spam issue)
~ Doug Titchmarsh
N e w P o s t s (1)
==========================
1) Frank Mathiote
~ Site review please.
2)Jerry Gann
~My First Post to this Group
Site Review Responses (0)
==========================
Site Review Requests (1)
===========================
1.) http://www.mybsns.com/karemor/hbirdwell
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=========================== Word from publisher ========================
Greetings All
Tadddaa 100 issue ;-)
Welcome (75) new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Recently I was notified that multiple copies of digest are sent
to some subscribers. After verifying my database I found that
since I upgraded system there was a bug. Multiple subscription
were possible for those who subscribed more than once.
I removed all duplicates (100) and now if you receive more then
one copy this will be only due to different email address
you subscribed to the list.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We are getting now more post than can be loaded into one
issue. Please be patient if your message didn't show up.
It will at later date.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Bogdan,
With your 100th Digest coming up, I hope I speak for *all* your loyal
subscribers in wishing you congrats for a job extremely well done! We all
hope you don't ever tire of the effort we all know it takes you to screen,
edit and post your Digest - one which we all gain so much from. We
probably all subscribe to numerous ezines and newsletters having to do with
our own personal businesses, but yours is the one we all read every issue -
cover-to-cover.
I believe I am speaking for all of us when I say, "Congratulations, Bogdan!
You're one in a million and we ALL sincerely appreciate you and all your
efforts!"
Thanks from all of us for continuing your unique level of sincerity and
caring. It's all too rare, and I, along with all of your subscribers,
fully appreciate your efforts!
Elizabeth K. Scott
LOANLIST.COM
http://www.loanlist.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you Elizabeth.
I'm really surprised with this letter and at the same time I realized
that it is almost a year when Digest first started with about 30 subscribers.
Now digest reached 7,000 subscribers and is going strong. Lots of
good discussion and useful information went through these 99 issues.
At this time I would like to say thanks to David Bredeweg who helped me with
starting it and moderated for about first 30 issues. Also thank to all of you
who took the time and provided Adland Digest readers with good information and
healthy discussion.
Thank you to all of you who did site reviews for those who requested it and
either posted it here or sent it directly to the requestor.
Thank you to all of you who provided this digest with great articles on
helping in promoting internet business.
Thanks again Elizabeth for noting it and hopefully we can all celebrate
200-Th issue.
It is lot of work but it is rewarding one.
B.F.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you think, you have an interesting success story to tell, please send
it to digest as usual and indicate as such.
At the end of 1999 I will create web page and will invite everybody
to vote for the "Success Story Of The Year"
Best voted story will receive one FREE year of advertising
in the form of small button at the bottom of each Adland page.
Adland receives 320,000 page viewings , 57,000 unique
visitors and grows on average 20% each month.
To be eligible for the prize, this story has to be from your own
experience.
See existing success stories here
http://www.softfornet.com/archives and
click (Success Stories)
BF.
==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From: Fiona Heares <heares@es.co.nz>
Sbuject: Paid Advertising Help
Re Joseph Jobst figures for search engines:
Hi Joseph,
I wasn't sure if those percentages related to the total number of people
surfing the web or those are the breakdown of the people that only use the
major engines. Figures can be misleading can't they unless you have all the
info.
I was wondering if you were implying that nobody ever uses other search
engines?
Sorry but I beg to differ that spending time to submit to smaller less used
engines is a waste of time.
If so where have all the people gone that have dropped off the big ones
here? Do they just not search the web anymore? Or are there actually less
people on the web?? The increase in yahoo and Snap don't necessarily make
up that deficit.
The intersting thing I have discovered lately is that although fewer people
use the smaller engines when they do they are usually searching for
something in particular and therefore make a highly targetted market!
We have found this to be highly effective for us.
We are based in New Zealand and sell gifts on-line. Any hits we get from NZ
search engines have been from people specifically looking for things about
New Zealand OR NZ products. It's great!
All of our sales that have come to us this way have been international
sales too......which was the surprising thing for us!
Anyway just my comments:)
Ka kite (See you)
Fiona & Joan:)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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We can deliver directly to the recpient with a personal note from YOU!.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From: Doug Steinke <dingus@ican.net>
Sbuject: Paid Advertising Help
Penny Widell wrote -
<snip>
>I have a question. I am going to start running paid ads,and would like to
>know if anyone has some pointers on how to decide where to buy paid ads on
>the classified sites. I know that E-Zine advertising are the best and I
>plan on using them too. But wanted some tips for the classifieds too.
>Penny,
>you might spend your money on classifieds in case of not knowing
>how to use your super-abundance of wealth ;-)
>Otherwise, forget paid online classifieds (the exception proves the rule!)
Bogdan : I am surprised to see such a false notion perpetrated in an
ezine that has it's basis in a classified ad site.
People do buy from classifieds. The advertiser has to target his market
and not just post to any ol' classified site as if they are all the same.
You have to know the circulation and what type of readers before you can
even begin to ascertain if an ad will be effective. For that reason I have
public "Extreme Tracking" logs on my site.
The really big sites like Yahoo are too catagorized to be useful for someone
who is likely to make an impulse purchase. You have to have in mind what you
want before you even browse.
The most accurate litmus test of a classified sites' effectiveness may well
be in the number of ads in the catagory in which you are interested. If you
see a lot of activety in any one catagory - you can be sure that is where to
place your bet.
Sure there are other forms of advertising like press releases that can be
more fruitful but they will only work if your product is really newsworthy.
That eliminates 99% of what people are trying to advertize.
To make blanket statements such as "forget paid online classifieds" is
just plain wrong.
Target your ad to the site is more like it.
This month the unique vistitors to my site are around 10,000. They are 80-90%
from the US and Canada. If someone has this information and they place an ad
trying to sell a pair of shoes in Hong Kong - You should be able to determine
the odds of a sale being consumated. Not that good.
But this doesn't mean paid classifieds don't work.
If on the other hand someone places a classic car on my site - their odds
are much improved.
People will travel many miles to buy that one-of-a-kind collectors car.
And lastly you have to compare the circulation cost per thousand visitors.
If an ad cost $10 on a classified site with 10,000 circulation
that can be a bargain compared to an ezine that charges $50 and has a true
circulation of only 4000.
I have no doubt there are many ezines out there that claim a high
circulation,
when in reality the true circulation is far less.
Many people have several alias email addressess. I know I have recieved
as many as ten copies of the same ezine. I get two adlands :) What about
you...
How often do you get duplicates of any ezine?
Doug Steinke
Discover The Free Garage Sale!
Free Buy & Sell Ads with Stand-Out Upgrades for a Fee.
http://www.freegaragesale.net/
Fax (603) 299-2563
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note from Editor.
Doug Steinke wrote...
>Bogdan : I am surprised to see such a false notion perpetrated in an
>ezine that has it's basis in a classified ad site.
In order to have healthy discussion we need to listen to all of the voices.
People like you and Fiona Heares will disagree and give us their view.
In my opinion statement that Classifieds don't work is generalizing to
much. These are not classifieds that don't work but quality of some
sites can be one of the factors how well they work. As you both are
mentioning targeting is what is another important factor.
It is known fact that industry average in click thrus is now
about 0.5 -1 % which means that per 1000 impressions 5-10 visitors
click on the banner. I can provide you with examples where
advertisers at Adland get their CTR 17% and over 90% of my advertiser
have CTR over 2%.
What it means that these advertisers paid me money knowing that their
advertising will work on my site. I'm having repeated purchases from
the same people over and over again and some are asking me for more
impressions per day but there is so many only available.
So in general I believe that you can get good results on any site which
will be targeted from your point of view.
E.g. Adland is becoming target for internet entrepreneurs and marketer
of promotion tools and advertising.
B.F.
==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From: Steve Angove <Angove@aol.com>
Subject: Online Marketing Techniques and FFA links
Hello!
First I would like everyone to know that I have FREE software for download
from my website at:
http://www.angove.com
Some of it pertains towards webmasters, some of it doesn't.
Second, please don't waste your time with FFA pages.
I have website submission software that I sell and update daily and I can
promise you that the only thing FFA pages are good for is if you LOVE spam!
Even after you tell these people to remove you from their lists, you get mail
form them anyways.
Nobody in their right mind looks at FFA pages for information, or anything
else for that matter. Some partners and myself did some testing awhile back,
and what we found may make you look at FFA pages in a different way!
We used java script to trace WHERE people visiting a site we set up were
coming from.
We created a special webpage and ONLY listed it on FFA pages. over 50,000 of
them! No kidding.
Out of 50,000 FFA pages, we only received 5 visitors! We re-submitted to
these FFA pages several times a day for 30 days. The reason for re-submitting
so much is because your link will only be on these pages for 2-3 hours.
Most FFA pages only allow up to 1,000 links, and with MILLIONS of people
posted to these FFA pages....you do the math!
People use search engines.
They also WILL click a banner if it sparks their interests.
But people will not scroll down a list of 1,000 FFA links that are all
cramped together.
Heck, do YOU go to FFA pages to find anything on the web???
Nope, I didn't think so. :-)
I want everyone to know one last thing:
Yahoo! did not become the mega site it is today by using FREE resources!
Neither did IBM, Microsoft,Netscape....I think you get the point.
Please don't misunderstand me! You SHOULD use free resources when you can!
BUT, it is not wise to use ONLY free resources....they will only get you so
far!
I recommend click-though banner ads on popular sites...like Yahoo,
Ebay...anywhere that is popular. Personaly I dont like paying for
impressions,I prefer click-throughs.
Also, ezines can be VERY helpfull....but only if they are TARGETED.
And, MIRROR YOUR SITES!
Sign up for all the free websites you can,then submit each one to all the
major search engines!
If anyone wants to make deals to help each other drive traffic to our
sites,let me know!
I am always willing to trade my retail software for services...even if its
just a link!
:-)
SEE YA!
Steve Angove
-----------------------------------
http://www.angove.com
http://www.rgsoftware.com
http://angove.safeshopper.com/
http://www.panacom.com/~sangove/
http://members.xoom.com/sangove/
------------------------------------
==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From: Teresa <TGrabs6462@aol.com>
Subject: Online Marketing Techniques and FFA links
Hi,
I just wanted to thank you all for your time to review my site.
I
have updated it in the last week. I feel like an idiot about the graphics (I
didn't think you needed to upload them too..) I received a couple of
responses about this and just wanted to say that 80% of them wanted to sell
me something (I guess this never changes). I also recieved a somewhat nasty
(in my opinion) email about the waste of good webspace. I feel this person
lost track of what my website is: It is a resource center for online
opportunities and other business services. I have posts,links, or banners to
all of my programs, but I also have several that do not belong to me. I like
people to post their information on my site because we can all work together
and still come out ahead. In fact, their programs have been doing better
than my own.
As far as the classifieds I have not received any help on this
subject. I have read your newest issue and want to say that yes some, if not
most, FFA pages are not good classifieds but FFA-O-MATIC (I have a page) does
not allow automated submissions and they have a link and banner exchange
program, allow you to surf the other pages for more credits, its FREE, and
they save the email addresses of those who post for a personal response
letter from you (great for supplemental advertising). There are good FFA
link pages out there--you just need to look for them. From the response I
get the people who post on my site receive good responses.
Some of the comments I have been hearing is that affiliate
programs
are not good. Who is this coming from?? Maybe someone who allready has a
product that they are trying to sell. Affiliate programs are great for
newbies because they allow them to get their feet wet in internet marketing
and promotion. It doesn't matter if the product is your OWN or someone
else's--you still get money for it ! As I said once before it seems to me
that some of the people here forget about the real prospects: MOST ARE
NEWBIES....they need to have a supportive atmosphere to succeed. If they
succeed then all the older (and yet not all that wiser) marketers will also
make money. As some of you read that this issue has xx new members this
issue, please keep in mind that at least half of them are new to this world
and are stumbling around in the dark. Offer up advise NOT try to sell
products or put them (or their ideas) down. I have often found that
befriending people first, listening to them, and helping them in their other
projects has lead to a sale of my own project.
Thanks,
Teresa
==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From: Bryan Marsden
Subject: Online Marketing Techniques and FFA links
Hi All,
I have been out there with my site for about two and half months and like
everybody else have been going through the learning curve on the essence of
internet business,
traffic building.
What works and what doesn't, I have tried the freebies, the FFA's, Classifieds,
Ezines, Newsgroups, Banners, click-thru networks etc. After all of this the
conclusion is that worthwhile advertising and marketing has to be paid for.
FFA's - What a waste of time, as pointed out in this digest postings to FFA's
last at the most for about two hours, does anybody know of anybody that actullay
visits an FFA site anyway. Owning an FFA with its autoresponder doesn't have
that much benefit either, OK you get a lot of emails out from autosubmissions
but to what avail, how many of you do as I do after a submission, Hit the Block
Delete.
What value has FFA submission software, how many of you actual read the logs
after submitting, I have and you will find that many of the advertised databases
on submission software either do not accept autosubmission or the software does
not even have permission to acces the database. My advice don't waste money on
buying submission software use it for effective advertising elswhere.
Ezines and Newsgroup have got merit in that we all learn through the knowledge
and experiences of one another and does generate some traffic, but the traffic
is there for a review of your site not for the purpose of buying products.
Having said that it is still worthwhile traffic as the feedback is quite often
invaluable on how to improve your site and make the desired sales.
Click-thru - Hits2U networks, OK if you go on the surfing rounds and build up
credits your site meter goes up, but to what value, many of the visitors just
come to the site click the icon and go, quite often they would not even be able
to recant what was on the page ten seconds after they left, because they didn't
look at anything but the icon they had to click on to get to the next site.
Banner Exchange another waste, banner exchange only builds traffic for your site
after you have been out and brought in your traffic from somewhere else, only
then do you start to get your banner promoted.
Search Engines, one of the keys to successful promotion, this is one area where
I would promote software that explains and guides you through the key factors in
successful search engine submission - Web Position Gold in my opinion is good,
they allow you a thirty day free trial of the software, which, if you are
prepared to spend some time during that period is a very good tutorial on
submitting to the various engines.
After trying out all of the above including getting my site on the first pages
of most major engines only to see it disappear on sites like Goto because of
paid advertising, I decided I should invest in some paid advertising myself.
What a difference, my traffic is increasing by the day, 100 visitors per day is
still not a lot but it has doubled in the last 10 days since I started paying to
advertise and is still going up.
Just before I started to write this I checked my visitor stats, 53% were from
bookmarks ( the site must have some appeal), 24% from paid ads, 18% from search
engines the other 5% are from various sources, including click-thru, some from
Free Classifieds. Banner Exchange Hits & FFA's - Nil.
As they say "Nothing good comes Free and Free doesn't always come good".
My evaluation in the short time I have been working the internet is that like
offline business, nobody is going to give it to you free, you have to work at it
and invest $$$ in it.
I hope that the above opinion has provided some insight to somebody, I would
also appreciate some opinions on my site.
Good luck and good business.
Bryan Marsden
--------------------------------
ALLGOODS WORLDWIDE SUPERSTORE
Shopping in 6 Languages
visit us at
http://www.allgoods.net
-----------------------------
==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From: Doug Titchmarsh <doug@titchmarsh.com>
Subject: Falsely Accused (Spam issue)
Hi
In issue #99 Harvey Turner wrote
<snip>
A new trend (to me) that seems to be developing is to request free
information from my autoresponders and send me their "spam" as
part of the request. Again - the delete button works well. Has anyone
else noticed this new tactic?
</snip>
It was uncanny timing as I have just noticed the same thing happening, I
personally think it is because these people are buying bulk email lists from
dealers who just scour the web for email addresses. It looks as if they do
not even take the time to filter them first for their clients, as most
autoresponders (at least the ones I use because they are free) are very easy
to spot due to the address after the @ which would be easy to remove from a
list. I also noticed that a few even put in the disclaimer "this is not spam
as you sent me your offer in the past" My auto responder must have started
it's own business on the side without me knowing! One of these disclaimers
even came in shortly after I put the email address on my site, and it
replied with it's first ever message to that post. Maybe my autoresponder is
a reincarnation!
Thanks for your time.
Doug Titchmarsh
-------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.titchmarsh.com
Earn $300 a day from this easy program for more details email
mailto:dougyt@smartbot.net
http://www.promatrixclub.com/enter/dt3009.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
======================N e w P o s t (1) ===========================
From: "frank mathiote" <fvm@tinet.ie>
Subject: site review please.
Frank Mathiote,
Email: fvm@tinet.ie
URL: http://homepage.tinet.ie/~frankie
Hello Bogdan,
I have been a lurker for over a year and have enjoyed
your digest in this electronic media.Unlike other ezines
which tend to be long on hype and short on facts yours
has better quality.
I don't have much knowledge about MLM,FFA,vertical or
horizontal markets,click thru ratios,CPM counts,uplines,
8x9 matrices etc.
Most of it sounds like Calculus to me and this wasn't my
favourite subject at school.
Anyway i am writing to request a site review, url as above.
Admittedly the site sucks because it does not flash u
with fancy gifs or Java animations.But i beleive all the
links work.
However the HTML could probably do with some
sprucing up.Your comments on these topics or others
will be greatly appreciated.
Please be as brutal and frank as u wish.
Incidentaly we design Shopping Carts and the site
provides a couple of simple examples of these.The
carts are lovingly handcrafted by our local craftsmen in
JavaScript and offer several advantages over
more conventional models least of which being pricing.
The site is continually under build and we hope to add
more content in due course.
I would also like u to comment about some fundamental
issues.This may be a good change from the usual marketing
related subjects.
Will the internet grow infinately large and ultimately
self collapse.? If it is expanding exponentially then its density
must be reducing so that at some point it will burst.Will the FFA
links acquire an infinate lenght over a period of time?
As things stand at the moment the internet appears to have
a very high noise to signal ratio.It resembles an intergalactic
black hole except that this one is man made.I think the advertiser
subscribed model of the internet could lead to a paradox.
It appears to benefit software companies who can sell u
HTML editors and other junk like servers rather than the
users.Why was the old user subscribed model abandoned?
Because the software companies figured they could make
more money from the current model. Where does that
leave the users?
What is the probability that an average
surfer using a search engine will ever find your site? Yet the
search engines appear to be doing very nicely even
if your site never gets found.There are even rumours
now that soon the search engines will begin selling
keywords to site owners as part of the registration
process.
Sometimes i can't help feeling that the whole thing is
probably a chimera orchestrated by giant software
companies where each user is a geek who is taught
to launch a home page that no one can find.
What can be done to improve the situation?
Thanks in advance.
======================N e w P o s t (2) ===========================
From: Jerry Gann <fla_son86@hotmail.com>
Subject: My First Post to this Group
Hello every one and God Bless you all for contributing something of
value to your fellow internetees.
I have several businesses on the web and I have been getting a great
education in marketing by just following others proven success plans.
I have always felt that you must give something back or be prepared
to give something of value for free if you ever intend to be a
success at anything.
For this reason I developed a homestead on the web that is about the
success that we all need. How to get it and how to achieve results.
I know some of it may sound corny, but these things still hold true
today. The only reason that they have lasted for so long is that
there is some truth in them. I will be expecting you to check my site
out and feel free to copy any of the pages if you think they will
be of help. Also, my main purpose is to glean from you any ideas that
would be nice for me to have on the site. Please sign the guest book
to let me know you were there. So here is the site and it doesn't
have a lot of hits, so don't let that bother you. I think it is info
anyone can use.
http://homestead.com/successnow/index.html
Feel free to let me know what you think. I also advertise my two
business at that site, so no need to mention them here.
Have a great day!
Jerry Gann
======================Site Review Request (1)===========================
From: "Hugh Hadley Birdwell" <jbirdwe1@san.rr.com>
I wish a site review of my site and our unique product line. Thanks
http://www.mybsns.com/karemor/hbirdwell
Warm regards,
Hugh Hadley Birdwell
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Independent Distributor of KareMor International Vitamist Spray
Nutraceuticals
Have you Sprayed your vitamins today? NO? Visit us On-Line @
http://www.mybsns.com/karemor/hbirdwell
or sprayvitamins1@sendfree.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
======================Joke of the Day=====================
Joke provided by
Laurie Delk <delk@columbia.total-web.net>
( You Have to GO )
A mother called her son one Sunday morning, to get him out of bed and get
ready for Church. He replied "I'm not goin"
His mother said "Yes, you are goin', so get out of that bed."
He replied "Give me ONE good reason why I should go."
She replied, "I'll give you THREE good reasons..."
1. I'm your mother and I say you're goin',
2. You-re 40 years old, so old enough to know better.
3. You're the Pastor, so you need to be there.
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