A Free subscribed Discussion List
                             of   18,634  subscribers
                      on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                         Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                         Vol. 1, #176,  May  28, 2000


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Topics in this issue:

         Sponsor Message
         Word from Publisher
          Success Story

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (6)

1.)Safe Lists
~ Linda Caroll
~ Robert Lee

2.) New Business
~ Mike Kyle

~ John Botscharow

4.)Credit-card purchases
~ Wendy Phillips

5.):Watch Out! The Internet Cops Are Stealing Your Email!
~ Linda Caroll

6.) Free Website Submitting And Promoting Club
~ Robert Lee

N e w     P o s t s   (2)

1.)Steve Hartung
~ A Dot-Shopper Survey

2.) Don Wetmore
~ Horse

A l e r t   S e c t i o n(1)

Site Review Responses (0)

Site Review Requests (1)

G u e s t   A r t i c l e (1)
The Hidden secrets of ebay.
By John Jakubik

Joke of the Day


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Digest sponsorship info

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome  212  new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.


I would like to recommend to you site with free graphics for
everyone, from one of our long time subscribers from Hungry.

Judy is a graphic designer and she got  introduced to the internet
not very long ago.
I want to mention that she did a lot of graphic work using
pencil, before anybody  though of doing this with computers.

She tried different avenues and finally she
got associated with
She is presenting there her skills and she would like to offer
you place where you can get free graphics for your website.

Cool graphics, categorized clipart, 100% free! Free
banner and button templates to make awebmaster's
promotional effort far more enjoyable. You can win a
custom-made logo or banner as well. Cool tips, tricks,


Recently I was worrying about load time of my website and tried to access it
from different locations to see how  well it loads. I tried services which
are testing site time load and was getting all kinds of results depending on
time of the day or day of the week.  This was still not good  and I felt
something was wrong but I wasn't sure how to fix it. I decided to ask my
visitors what they feel about load speed of my site.
I was just introduced to very neat free voting tool, which can  be set up
within  minutes.
You can open little pop up window on your site and ask any kind of
questions. Responses are provided in the form of  graph with bars showing
results of voting immediately to your visitors and also you can check those
results from time to time.

After two days of running this pop-up window (it opens only one time for
each visitor) I got  274 responses and found out that  41% of people feel
that my site loads fast,  23% feel that my site is very slow and  36% feel
that load time is acceptable.
This gave me confidence that  in general over 77% are satisfied with
accessing my site.

To see this free little tool and how it works or get one for yourself, just
go to my site and you will find all the info.
If this is your first visit to AdlandPro Classifieds, you will need to
select geographical location to get to the page with voting window after you
access link below.
To see it  go  here and once you are there give me your vote.


Jerry Garner asked me this question.

I am looking for someone who could do some programming for tracking
purposes on an affiliate program I am trying to put together. Is there
anyone you could suggest for this? Also, if you have problems replying to
this address, try sending to

At the time when you asked I didn't have this information but when I run
into this site, I immediately thought about it.
There is a company which provides software run on their server, which
not only  gives you almost any feature you could have thought of, but
they will also run the whole system for you.
Some of the features are these.

1. Email Marketing Software - Let your Affiliates help you build your lists.
2. Affiliate Categorization
3. Timed Promotion for Affiliate Categories
4. Empowerment Pack
5. Banner Tracking
6. Rotating Banners
7. Sign Up Validation
8. Self Replicating Pages Module
9. Pay Per Email Module
10. Custom Domains
11. Signing On New Affiliate Members
12. Managing and Motivating Your Affiliate Members
13. Tracking
14. Paying Your Affiliate Members
15. And more

I run my own affiliate program myself and even if I'm programmer,
I don't have half of those features.
First, I wouldn't think of some of them and second, I wouldn't have time
to implement all of this.

If you are offering service on your site and are thinking of
affiliate program on your own, this is solution for you.
Go here to see some success stories or directly access the site.


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and read about rules and guidelines.

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==========Success Story=============
From: "Ian Brooks" <>


I've read in the last couple of issues that you want to hear from those
people who have a success story to tell your readers.  Here is mine.

I wrote, and had published, an article in your newsletter a while back about
that I used to work for PIYB (that unspeakable name on most of your readers
lips) and that in the end when everyone else was loosing their money I lost
my long distance job and was left in debt because my owed wages were never
paid.  Anyway, enough boo..hoo

Since I first started to encounter trouble with PIYB in December of 1999 I
decided that I should try and set-up something of my own and utilise what
knowledge I had gained from my time online over the past 18 months. After a
bit of thinking I decided I would use my VB programming knowledge to create
an application that would help online marketers show their sites, services
or products to the world both on internet and straight onto people's
desktops. I checked out with a few people first my idea and then sat down
and started the task of coding it.

A few weeks went by, days and evenings spent coding and testing and finally
I came up with version one of Wise Wolf Pages.  I had spent a lot of time
trying to make the software not only function well, but also look fairly
neat as people, especially internet dwellers, like thinks that look tidy.
When all looked well and functioned well I released the software to the

After a couple of weeks of people downloading and using the software and me
fixing minor problems, people told me the software was great at first, but
they couldn't see there was any great long lasting use in the software for
them.  People needed more from the software so that both they and their
potential customers would keep on using it.  I busily began updating the
program and adding ideas in that people had thrown my way.

Eventually after releasing version 3 of the software I had amassed over
1,000 users of the software, which I was very proud of because I had taken
an idea, built it into something solid (well electronic) and go other people
interested in using it.  As I have also been fond of saying "Take an acorn,
plant it and it may eventually grow, but you won't know unless you do".

Around the time of releasing version 3, I was moving address from Birmingham
in the UK to London with my girlfriend and her daughter. When we finally
moved in I had to wait 2 weeks for the telephone line to be put in as the
telephone company kept on making mistakes and somehow managed to 'blow up'
the exchange box on our street!! Yes, that's right they blew up the exchange
putting in my telephone line!! LOL

In the time I spent off line, because of no telephone or internet
connection, I decided to update Wise Wolf Pages again and this time make it
do other things that would encourage people to use it and keep on using it.
I did a lot of coding and thinking and finally came up with version 4,
released it when the phone line was installed and sat back and waited.

In just over 1 week I had 400 downloads of the software and I hadn't even
submitted it to the software archives around the internet yet!!  This made
me feel great and made me think that a lot of work is paying off at last.

People are now using the software to promote their sites by using it's
categorised advertising system, web adverts and incorporation of their
banners into the software.  People are also getting very excited about the
other features I added in so that they are assured to get some traffic to
their web sites by using the software. Quite a few people also paid the $15
registration fee I asked, although it is not actually necessary for them to
pay as the software never expires.  Users are also making money from the
affiliate program I have set up for them.

So all those dark thoughts I was having around December 1999 are now finally
disappearing and I am looking forward to a better future on the net.  I may
not become mega rich, but my main priority is to make a difference and
hopefully one day see that acorn grow into the tree I was talking about.

If people want so see what Wise Wolf Pages 4 is all about then they can
visit and take a look and if they want join a
community of marketers that do their marketing by using a small application
that sits on their desktops then they should download it and give it a go!!

If I could give one piece of advice to your readers, then it would be if
they have a good idea then try and put it into action as you never know what
may happen.  Give it a go as you won't know until you try.

Thanks for a great newsletter,

Ian Brooks

Wise Wolf Promotions
Get FREE software to promote your site, service or product at:

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From: Linda Caroll <>
Subject:Safe Lists

Phil Calvert wrote:

>Anyone have success with so-called "Safe Lists"?  I'm thinking about giving
>them a try, but I've heard of people losing their Net access by posting to
>these.  This doesn't make sense to me because there's a big difference
>between posting to a public mailing list and spamming.  What's the story

Hi Phil:

Many public mailing lists, including many of the lists
advertised as "safe" lists are obtained by harvesting
email addresses and then selling, renting or trading them.

I have never once opted in to a safe list or any other
public mailing list.  I subscribe to a small number of
ezines, all who have "no spam" policies.  Despite this,
I get at least 50 pieces of spam a day.  Most of them
claim that I "opted in" or that it is a "safe" list.

My suggestion is that unless you have collected the
names yourself, in an opt-in fashion, at your website,
be very, very careful. Your reputation,  your hosting
and internet account is at risk when you use a "safe"
list.  Why?  Because most safe lists - aren't.

Linda Caroll

When you're tired of hype..

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From: "Robert Lee" <>
Subject:Safe Lists

Hello Bogdan!

Another week and we're still able to log on and get to work. I still find it
hard to explain to people what I do for the better part of my work week,
besides my regular job, so I just hand them a business card and let them
check it out for themselves. It's not hard to do and it's cheap too. I also
include my cards with my monthly bill payments that get paid via snail-mail.
Is it worth it? Yes, I have received some hits from the cards going out in
bills, not many, but more than if I hadn't included the card at all!
Spamming snail-mail or promoting, you be the judge.
Phil writes:
>Anyone have success with so-called "Safe Lists"?  I'm thinking about giving
them a try, but I've heard of people losing their Net access by posting to
these.  This doesn't make sense to me because there's a big difference
between posting to a public mailing list and spamming.  What's the story
All I can say is that I have in my contact list a number of
addresses that I use every time I have been spammed.
"Safe List" is a misnomer, it only means what the seller wants to call it.
One way or another these email addresses have been harvested from somewhere.
I am sure that some are legitimate and to be honest, I have considered an
email campaign to promote my sites as well, but would rather spend my money
on email newsletter advertising, than so called "Safe Lists".
Phil, do yourself a favor and sign up for some newsletters that are related
to your website. If you like them (probably others will too!) send an email
and get the rates.
The discussion seems to continue about whether to get your own domain or
I can tell you that I personally feel that if your online business does not
involve the minimum required investment of a domain name and hosting, you
are probably not going to be taken seriously.
For my main site I review dating services.
I get many requests each week to look at different dating services.
Unfortunately, many of them are just affiliate banner sites.
While this can be a great way to earn income (it is how I started!), it
requires work to include original content and not get swept up in the $$$
being shown to you that really does not materialize if your site does not
have content. And if I am replying to from a geocities site,
well, all I can say is they are not very likely to be listed at!
If you are trying to sell someone else's program online, how are you going
to make it attractive?
Display several related banners and promote like hell?
Or get down to investing time and money in adding reasons why someone should
follow through with a click to your recommended program(s)?
Is your website 2 or 3 pages deep and you wonder why you are not attracting
any traffic? Or is your website so overwhelming in content that navigation
needs to be redesigned so your visitors can more easily find their way

How often do you look at your competitors websites and see ideas on how to
improve your own website?
I am not talking about copying code and content, but creating something
uniquely your's based on other concepts that exist online.
There are millions of buildings in the world and not all of them have 4

If your website exists as a link to the people that have promised you a
check next month, have you fully checked out their site? Does it make you
want to buy? Did you? If yes, then create that atmosphere on your own
website. If you didn't, how can you create the urge to buy or click-through?


It is not measured 468 x 60 anymore!

If you need ideas for your website, this is where to ask.
If you need a critique, you'll get honest opinions and ways to make the best
of your time by asking through this digest.
Chelsa Hunter are you hearing this?
Tell us what type of website you have and you'll get info on where to

Robert Lee

Free Computer Pranks, Games and more!

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:Mike Kyle
Subject: New Business

This is in reference to Chelsa Hunters request for information about
how to get started with a business on the internet.
I take it that you already have a business that you are wanting and
needing to promote. And like most start ups there is little capital to
advertise with. There are a few ways to do this.You will have to
weigh the effectiveness of each. I have had some success using
the lists that are available. You can post a message that will be
seen by all on the list. (or at least it will be mailed to them) and i
have proven that some of the mail is read and  not dumped. I
advertised one of my sites in a particular list and watched the
number of people come to the site  after the mail went out. This
works  if you have a hit counter on the site. There are other ways to
accumulate data about your visitors so you can track where they
are coming from. That way you can run more than one ad
campaign at a time. but alas, that will cost a little dough-re-me.
So i would suggest a simple strategy. Don't get in a hurry. be
patient and stay focused on your objective. It is easy to get side
tracked. Save up enough money to start slow, and let it build on
itself. There are a number of ways to accomplish your goals. I have
effectively used 2 that I will share with you.
1. I use the Directory of  Ezines. Ruth Townsend has done a great
job of cutting thru all the stuff on the internet and you will  find
quite a number of ezines to advertise in and you can get started on
a hot dog budget. Some you can advertise in for $10. Take the
profit from the sales made from that ad run and put it into a little bit
larger one. And so on , you get the picture..There is an annual
subscription to her service, but the value is far greater. You can find
more info at her site.

2. You might want to put this in your budget too. It will become
invaluable as your need for corresponding with clients grows. I am
referring to an autoresponder. I use and recommend Quicktell. It is
fast, reliable, and while it is a tool for you to use, it also will make
you some money if you refer others  to it. There are certainly
others on the internet, but none like this. Especially since Adrian
finished putting the new features on it. AND he didn't go up on the
price! You can get all the info on it by sending a blank email to :
<a>2fast</a> This will also give
you an idea about how it works.
While there are going to be results you can achieve by using all the
free ways to advertise, the most important thing you will gain by
doing that is knowledge and experience with the internet.
To make money, you will have to  spend money. Start with what
you,and build it. Take an inventory of what's in your hands..then
use it.
To your success.
Mike Kyle

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From: "John Botscharow" <>
Subject: RE: e-Crucible


Sorry I forgot to include the information about how to join e-Crucible.
BTW, we have opened membership up to ANYBODY!!

The E-Crucible is committed to returning
sanity and responsibility to the Internet.
We feel that the "Spam hysteria" that is prevalent
in the Internet culture today is unfair, irresponsible
and counter-productive to maintaining the Internet
as a free marketplace.
Therefore we are committed to:
FIGHT !......anti-spam fanaticism ;

FIGHT !.....for safety and freedom in business promotion;

FIGHT !.....expulsion by ISP's without a fair hearing.

FIGHT !.....for a responsible and reasonable definition of SPAM

To join send

Best regards,

John Botscharow
LFI Member # 2023261

Make OBSCENE profits from the hottest program
My private voice chat room:

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From: Wendy Phillips
Subject: Credit-card purchases

In Adland Digest #175 Moderator wrote:

 If you are providing credit card purchases on your site,  you should
 realize that visitors from other countries, might not know exactly, how
 much money they will owe you in their currency.   Recently I found
 this free currency converter which will convert majority of currencies
 back and forth. You just need to place link around the area where your
 customers could have these type of questions and open it in the pop up

I provide another Currency Counter on my AOL site:
It's in America Online, but will open in a browser. However, the size at
check won't be full screen. It exchanges both cash and credit-card rates.

Wendy Phillips

Globe City Planet Shopping

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)=============
From: Linda Caroll <>
Subject:Watch Out! The Internet Cops Are Stealing Your Email!

Hello Bogdan & Adland Subscribers:

Bob Sharpe  wrote:

>Watch Out! The Internet Cops Are Stealing Your Email!

>...getting intercepted by a self-appointed Internet cop organization.
>( The reasoning they gave me is
>that somebody used the same server that I use to send spam.
>Therefore anyone--spammer or not--who uses that server is
>now having their email intercepted. It's like sending all Ford
>owners to jail because some bank robber
>used a Ford one time as his getaway car.

Bob, the analogy you use doesn't fit.

No one is "stealing" your mail.  Saying "no" to your
mail is not stealing it - it's just refusing to accept it.
They are refusing to accept it because it comes from
a server that has a history of sending spam.

Using that server is your choice. Choosing not to accept
email from servers that condone spam is their choice.

>This is very frustrating. I am not a spammer, and I don't condone it in
>any way. But these internet cops don't have the right to interfere with
>a person's legitimate business.

Accountability is a funny thing. It's easy to point the finger
and say they are preventing you from doing legitimate
business.  It seems to me that your choice of server
is what is causing you to have this problem.

Spam is now illegal in Canada, and the UK is contemplating
making it illegal there very soon, too.   I think we will all
begin to see more and more places banning mail from
servers that condone spam.

Perhaps it is a good thing that they are bouncing the
email back to you.  If they just deleted it, you would
not know it was not going through.

Do they have the right?  AltaVista, Hotmail and Linkline
have asked them to bounce anything coming from
servers that are known for sending spam.  Yes, they
have the right to do what they were asked to do.

You have the right to choose whether to use a server
that has a reputation for being the source of spam.
The choice is yours.

Linda Caroll

When you're tired of hype..

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (6.1)=============
From: "Robert Lee" <>
Subject:: Free Website Submitting And Promoting Club

Tom Dahne wrote in Adland Digest #175

I'm looking for people who are interested in starting up a Free Website
Submitting And Promoting Club.

Also I will offer 4 weeks of free website submitting for people who wish to
join and
choose to swap links or banners between other members websites.

The way I will submit your website will be 2 times per week for 4 weeks

This will be to over 1500+ search engines and 500+ Classified Ad websites
plus heaps of others.

Tom Dahne,
Just bought an auto-submitter? Have some time on your hands do you?
I find it rather interesting that the money you have been making on the
internet seems to be in the form of checks written to other people. Oh,
that's right, you say "samples of checks" written to OTHER PEOPLE doing what
you are doing. Interesting.
I must say that you at least have some words on your site and you seem to be
working at it, but you could probably do much better.
By the way, what would a Promotions Club be exactly? A series of websites
that all have submission services? Linked together? Submitting to the same
search engines and FFA's? Again, interesting.

Robert Lee

Free Computer Pranks, Games and more!

============A l e r t   S e c t i o n====================
From: Rodger

Thought I'd let you know of the problems I've had concerning,and
the "FREE ROUND-TRIP AIR TICKETS",just try out their program..Long Distance
calling plan,and they'll send you free tickets. Well,I tried their
program,long-ago,long-ago! And to date have not seen a single ticket out of
four that they twice promised to send. Which by the way I have in written
form. In fact,I have about 15 emails from this concern/agents thereof,going
back quite away. I just tried to send them an email and for the second time
it was returned.....hmmmmmm!


======================N e w P o s t i n g (1)========================
From: Steve Hartung <>
Subject:A Dot-Shopper Survey

Thanks for the insight as to web-based email and getting a virus. My
thoughts were in line
with your comments. The following may be of help to adlands readers.
Steve Hartung


> According to, there are six distinct shopping
> types or "personalities" among the estimated 120 million
> people who now shop online. Which is your target: E-bivalent
> Newbies, Time-Sensitive Materialists, Clicks & Mortar,
> Hooked, Online & Single, Hunter-Gatherers or Brand Loyalists?

> According to the study, six in ten consumers enter directly
> into their browsers the website address of a merchant they
> know who sells the product they want. This behavior pattern
> further confirms the importance of brand building in the e-
> commerce economy.
> Not surprisingly, banner ads, one of the most ubiquitous
> marketing tools, are attracting the least sophisticated
> buyers, the study found.
> Nearly 9% of "E-bivalent Newbies" reported beginning their
> search for a product purchased online by clicking on a banner
> ad; this number is nearly three times the size of the next
> largest group (3.3% of the "Hooked, Online & Single"
> segment).
> Also, the survey found that offline advertising is having
> less of an effect on online spending than might be hoped by
> e-commerce companies. Only 6% of survey respondents indicated
> they began their search online for a product after seeing an
> ad offline, such as on television, radio or in print. End.

Steve Hartung

Get paid to read your regular daily email
Thanks adlands digest readers.

======================N e w P o s t i n g (2)========================
From: "Don Wetmore" <>
Subject: Horse

Great increases in our personal productivity do not
necessarily require great increases in effort. As in a horse
race, greater rewards come from being only "a nose ahead". I
wrote a short article on this topic entitled, "Time
Management Horse Sense" that I am happy to share with
members of the List. To get your free copy, email your
request for "horse" to:

Dr. Donald E. Wetmore Professional Speaker

Productivity Institute Time Management Seminars
60 Huntington ST. Shelton, CT 06484
(203) 929-9902
Visit our Supersite:

===============Site Review Request(1)===============
From: Frank Jamison <>

Please review my website at

Frank Jamison

***********YOU can own an online CASINO site NOW!***********
  YES YOU CAN & the profits from this site are staggering.
*****Yeah, but how much?  Less than dinner and a movie.*****
Fast, easy, 5 minute set up and you own an Internet CASH COW!
You have to see it. Click NOW for FREE details & $495 bonus!
Limited time offer - Don't miss it!

===================G u e s t A r t i c l e (1)=====================
The Hidden secrets of ebay.
By John Jakubik

  Like most cyberpreneurs I have been searching the Internet for about 6
years now, desperately looking for a ways to bring in just a little extra
cash. Over These past 6 years I have tried everything from the standard "get
rich quick" scheme to those "you could be making.millions with little or no
effort" type of business.

  Let's face it, even though the cyber world is relatively new, it's still
based on a set of rules. Business rules. People are not going to sink
endless amounts of money into stupid programs where they make no money. In
most of the MLM and cookie cutter programs the only person who benefits is
the first person who though of a way to deceive people out of their money.
Get a real Job!

  This next section might sound a little weird. But, here goes. This idea
came to me one Sunday while I was lying around the house, watching TV and
trying to read the Sunday advertisement inserts.

  When my show was interrupted by the usual 3 minutes of commercials my eyes
drifted back to the paper. I was reading this ad that said there was this
local department store that was going out of business. In big letters the ad
read "Entire stock blow-out. All stock 70-80 percent off". At the same time
I overheard one of the commercials. It was a commercial for ebay. You know
the online auction place. Anyway, I heard one of their slogans while I was
reading the ads. "Sell your Stuff!"

  I chuckled to myself, heh, what stuff? Then it hit me. What if I when to
this blow-out sale bought a couple of items and then posted them on ebay? So
I did.

  My test item was a Sharp Mini System. I had paid $115 for something that
normally costs $230. Even if I had kept this stereo it would have been a
great deal. But I didn't. I posted it on ebay for an auction lasting 5 days
starting at $180. It turned out that I had 15 people bid on my stereo and
the highest bid was $193.50. So I sold a stereo and made $78.50, big deal!

  Well.actually it was a big deal. I found out that it only costs me $2 to
put something on ebay, regardless of how much it sells for.

  My next step in all this was contacting someone, anyone who knew anything
about wholesalers. I figured that if I could get products even at 50% off I
could still turn a nice profit. And that's exactly what I did. I contacted a
company called Merchandise Marketplace. They deal with wholesale products,
and sell them to you at a cost much below retail. And you don't have to buy
in bulk to save either.

  Week after week I place 6 to 10 items on ebay, each only turning about
$45-$50 in profit. And at the end of the week, even if I only sell 6 items I
have made an extra $300. The great thing about ebay is that thousands of
people visit them each day, so you don't have to waste time and money on

  So I say to you.Good luck and share the wealth! Need more information?
Visit Any new Ideas, why not send them to me:

  Yours in business,

  John Jakubik

======================Joke of the Day=====================

A woman was chatting with her next-door neighbour. "I feel
really good today.  I started out this morning with an act of
unselfish generosity. I gave a twenty dollar bill to a bum."

"You gave a bum twenty whole dollars? That's a lot of money
to just give away.  What did you husband say about it?"

"Oh, he thought it was the proper thing to do. He said,
'Thanks.' "


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