A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of   22,404 subscribers
                    on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                         Vol. 1, #205  Nov 12, 2000


Are you making money online?  Could you imagine a job that you wake up in
the morning spend an hour or two on your computer then do whatever you want
the rest of the day?  That's what I do right now it has taken me a year and
a half to quit my old job but now I make more and work less!!

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Topics in this issue:

         Sponsor Message
         Word from Publisher
         Featured Post

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (3)
1. Which advertising methods are best?
~ Audra

2. I have now been accused of spamming
~ Melody T Vargas
~ John Kennedy
~ Peter G. Browne
~ Amy Squires

3. Search Engine Optimization
~ Judith Tramayne-Barth

N e w     P o s t s   (1)
1. Don Wetmore
~ Job in half the time

Site Review Requests (1)

G u e s t   A r t i c l e (1)
Does Hype Really Sell?
BY Angela Wu

Joke of the Day (1)

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome  192   new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.


I usually don't discuss affiliate programs in Adland Digest myself, as
they usually  all have one goal in common. Getting more
people subscribed to them. This program has this particular idea
also incorporated into it, but because it consist over 50% of
all advertising bought at recently,
I got so curious about it that I joined it myself.

GoingPlatinum seems to be preoccupying  every marketer
out there and it is the first program which seems to bring
something new to the affiliate program markets since
I would be interested to know, what others think about
it. What I'm looking here for, is your thoughts on how
you think this concept can change internet in the future
(if at all). Please send your  personal comments only, what
you believe not what others are saying about it.


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Again call for more success stories.
I run out of my supplies and expect to receive some more from you,
before next issue goes out.
You did great job so far.

If you think,  you have an interesting success story to tell, please send
it to digest as usual and indicate as such.
At the end of year I will create web page and will invite everybody
to vote for the "Success Story Of The Year"
Best voted story will receive one FREE year of advertising
in the form of  small button at the bottom of each AdlandPro page.
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visitors  each month.

To be eligible for the prize, this story has to be from your own

See existing success stories here

===================Featured Post==================
From: "Melanie Kozik" <>
Subject: Which businesses do best online?

Hi Adlanders :}

Many online businesses, not all of them of course, are extensions
of a business already up and running in *the real world*.

I came online because I can help people from anywhere and
not just my local and surrounding area.  Because I deal in
information, it was/is the ideal medium for my business.  Most
businesses can profit somewhat from going online -- but the ones
IMO that  do the best are:

1) instant access to highly desirable material
2) information access
3) instant gratification
4) pay-per-view

We all know how much we like *instant gratification*.

(download of software, reading material, FAQ answers and giving
people what they need when they need it (or sooner!)

There is a lot of talk lately in marketing circles about *branding
yourself* - that this is the age of "shameless self-promotion".

That may be so--but I know one thing.  Superior customer support
is THE MAIN KEY thing (aside from a quality product or service
already)that will keep your customers YOUR CUSTOMERS.
Customer loyalty is the MAIN thing to strive for.  Those who view
their online client base as though they are *end users*...well...'nuff

I will always go out of my way to help people who have entrusted
me to locate sensitive data for them.  The web is only an extension
of the *real world* -- don't forget that.

Being online does not make you instantly honest, or popular or
successful.  Most of that needs to be in place BEFORE and if it
isn' probably won't arrive here either.

Melanie Kozik

"We are One Powerful Information Location Machine."

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From: "Audra Gehrke" <>
Subject:Which advertising methods are best?

Hi Keith,

When I first started working online I didn't know squat about
online marketing. I learned from researching, testing and
just watching what other people do. Here are the best
way's that work for me.

One of the best ways to get your ad in front of thousands
for low cost are safe e-mailing lists. Their are paid and
free lists you can join. I recommend the paid lists because
they have the best response rate. The people that are on
them also paid so your ad is more likely to get read.
If you would like some links to these lists you can e-mail
me at

Another good way is through e-zine advertising.
There's allot of e-zine's (such as mine) that accept free ad's to new
subscriber's. You can get your ad to 1,000's with these method's.
I have to stress one point with this method.
Since I've been a publisher for 9 months, I've realised that allot
of people subscribe, send in their free ad then come to find out
they gave a invalid e-mail address so they never read the e-zine.
What people have to realise is this waste's allot of our time.
For one, when people do that, their ad will never be published
anyway's so it wasted their time to subscribe and send their free
ad's. It wasted the publisher's time because the ones that do this
manually, (like me) it takes time. When your trying to run a business
online this gets frustrating at times. So just keep that in the back of
your mind's next time you go to subscribe to someone's e-zine.
After all they are giving you free advertising to 1,000's.

You can subscribe to my e-zine Ecommerce Resources for free
and submit your free 5 line ad here

Thank you,
Audra Gehrke

Ecommerce Resources

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From: "Melody T Vargas" <>
Subject: I have now been accused of spamming

"Tom Johnson" <> writes in Digest #204
that he has "now been accused of spamming."

"I have now been accused of spamming because I am sending emails
out to the various lists that I have subscribed to. Some people are on
my personal list. But only people who have at one time or another sent
me an email. Or subscribed. They seem to have forgotten that they first
sent me an email."

Well, at least now I know where he got MY name and email address.
People who respond to discussion groups like AdLand Digest are not
doing anything but participating in the group.  Our posts do not give
other members permission to send us anything other than comments
related to the discussion at hand.  Before adding anyone to a list of
any kind, you should ask them if they want to be added.

I had responded privately to Tom last week, but my suggestion was
to remove everyone and start over with an ethical opt-in list.  I also
explained that most people won't respond to spammers remove features
since it is frequently a trick to locate valid email addresses for resale

Opt-in is always the safest way to build a list.  If anyone needs help
figuring out how to use email marketing, build mailing lists and
communities in a professional and customer friendly manner, I highly

Melody T Vargas
Resources, tips and solutions for small and home businesses

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From: "John Kennedy" <>
Subject: I have now been accused of spamming .


Are your mailing lists set-up such that a confirmation email is sent out
that requires a positive action on the part of the subscriber in order to
complete the enrolment?  This is very important due to the fact that it is
very easy to subscribe anyone to a mailing list that doesn't have this

Also, do you keep copies of all enrolment requests?  Very important.  This
is your evidence of enrolment.

As far as the ISP being complained to, if you are in the USA you have the
right to confront your accuser.  Anybody accusing you of doing something
wrong and not identifying themselves is not fair to you.  You are presumed
guilty.  If the ISP won't provide the email address of the accuser, make
your subscription available to the ISP for review.  Go out of your way to
show that you are not a careless spammer but someone who truly honors
removal requests.

Running a mailing list is a very touchy subject.  I run a hosting company
and I caution my customers to be very careful in sending email to a group of
people.  I insist that they get confirmations and keep detailed records.  So
far, so good.  I have had only one get in trouble and we were able to
resolve the issue to everyone's satisfaction.


ICQ:  97364308
300MB Webhosting - $
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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From: "Peter G. Browne" <>
Subject: I have now been accused of spamming .

Hello Bogdan,
From: "Tom Johnson" <>
Subject: I have now been accused of spamming .

I have now been accused of spamming because I am sending emails out to
the various lists that I have subscribed to. Some people are on my personal
list. But only people who have at one time or another sent me an email.....
I received the same e-mail one day very recently, Sun, 05 Nov 2000 13:14:27
from the same person and was wondering, why would this person be sending
this to me but, at the time I paid very little attention to it and just
passed it off as someone that was reported for spamming people and was a
bit unhappy about it. It crossed my mind that I had never communicated with
Tom Johnson personally nor had I subscribed to anything of his  but being that
I am a professed advocate against SPAM he felt the need to voice his opinion
to me.
Well after reading this post in Adland it now makes me wonder if Mr Johnson
harvested my e-mail address from a post in Adlands along with possibly
everyone else's address that  has every been published in Adlands as a
result of a post they made. Now I am not saying that is what has happened,
I am speculating so there is no accusations being cast here. But in my
opinion it is a pretty strong case that is what happened and if that is so and
Mr Johnson has harvested address's from Adlands and then included those
addresses in what he sends out, then that is not OPT IN and it is SPAMMING.
I choose to receive Adlands and as such that does not mean that everyone
else that receives Adlands has the right to include me in their list no matter
how cute or innocent they feel their publication is. I never asked to receive
cute jokes that you could tell in church, so if I was included in the list of Tom
Johnson and I did receive his mailing, it was unsolicited and as such there
is a  good chance that I did report him for spamming me. I really don't know
if that is case as I report quite a few SPAMMERS every week and if my
name was harvested from this publication and you sent me your publication
unsolicited then you are 100% a SPAMMER.
Sure, if you do include me you give a few different ways to un-subscribe,
but why should I take the time to un-subscribe from something I did not
subscribe to in the first place?
I wouldn't walk into a court in any country and just say defend my self for
murder when I didn't commit a murder.  I feel that in the case of true
SPAMMING, and this scenario as laid out above would constitute Spamming,
my time is better spent in having the SPAMMER shut down and taken off line
whenever possible.
You see I also live in Canada and as such things are different here than
elsewhere, I include the following from our court system:
Toronto, Ontario, CANADA, July 9, 1999 - The Canadian Courts are celebrating
a victory in the fight against spam email.
In a landmark ruling last month, the Ontario Superior Courts took a stand
against Internet junk mail with a decision that may lay the groundwork for
the way n which Internet standards and Netiquette will be viewed.
Justice Janet Wilson stated that "sending unsolicited bulk commercial email
is in breach of the emerging principles of Netiquette, unless it is
specifically permitted in the governing contract."
The decision came after a complaint was filed by after it's
host, deactivated it's website.  According to the hosting company president
Thomas Savundranayagam, the decision to terminate the site came after
numerous complaints from customers whom had received the junk email.
Despite the hosts recommendations that the spamming be stopped, continued to send over 200,000 messages daily, thus
violating anti-spamming policies and the rules of Netiquette.'s complaint claimed that the host had wrongfully deactivated
it's site. The hosting company, however, believed that the spamming
practices exhibited by were in violation of an agreement
to preserve the rules of Netiquette.
The judges decision in favor of the hosting company is a victory for both
customers and providers, said Savundranayagam. "We are pleased with the
court's decision, because it sends a strong message that junk email is not
welcome in Canada."
Now perhaps I was not the party that reported Tom Johnson in this case and
as such I am innocent of the complaints against him, perhaps it was a fellow
Adlander that reported him and I thank  them for that. If my e-mail address
was harvested from this publication and I now suspect it was, then I along
with everyone else was SPAMMED. Someone just  took exception to it as
we all should. The question needs to be asked of Mr Johnson, " Did you
e-mail to the people of Adlands or any other publication you receive without
them Opting in to your publication?" If so then you take the consequences
of your actions, if not then you have a job ahead of you that should be
fairly simple as you always save you OPT IN requests and as such will have
mine as you have my e-mail address.

That's about it for now, some people will more than likely not agree with my
stance and some will and that's just the way it is. I am merely commenting
on what could be the case and what might have happened. The answers lie in
whether Mr. Johnson has peoples addresses in an OPT IN list. Only he can
prove that, I am pretty well sure I didn't OPT IN Did you? One other final
note, If a person sends you an e-mail does that give you the right to
transfer that address to an OPT IN list for a publication? If I read the
original post from Adlands #204 Mr Johnson  states "But only people who
have at one time or another sent me an email........."

Peter G. Browne

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.4)=============
From: "Amy Squires" <>
Subject: I have now been accused of spamming .

Dear Webmaster,
        I am new at this, and don't exactly know the procedure, but one of
your postings struck a chord with me. It was the one from Tom Johnson
talking about being accused of spamming. I will assume that this works
something like a regular discussion board, and just write as if I am
answering him personally. Please let me know if this is not correct.

        Tom, I understand your frustration. The other day I received a
letter from a woman advertising the business she was in. I don't recall
signing up for it, but I am also involved in business on the internet, so I
am not to touchy on the subject. So, I responded to her letter with a letter
of my own. I merely suggested that she might get some better results with
her advertising if she joined the free club that I belong to
( that is designed to have people help each other
with their marketing, and supplies some much needed resources for online
        I sent the reply by hitting my "reply" button, and included her
original letter along with a message saying that she didn't need to do
anything to unsubscribe since it was a one time response to her letter. I
was amazed when I received a letter back from her (with both of our letters
still attached) accusing me of spamming her.
        I am convinced that there is no getting around the fact that there
are allot of CAVE (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) out there. You
can't let it get to you, or you will have to give up everything you are
trying to accomplish. You can jump through all of the hoops of setting up
mirror sites, putting "remove" information on your letters, setting up throw
away e-mail accounts, and any other "trick" you can think of, and you are
still going to end up with an occasional nut who hollers "SPAM". None of us
would still be in business if we took this to heart.
        My advice to you would be to continue putting your removal
instructions on your letters so your backside is covered, and try to ignore
the occasional fruitcake who either doesn't remember signing up, or just
feels like making someone else's day a little more gloomy. I think your
trying to brighten people's day is commendable, and you can sign me up if
you would like. If I get tired of it, I know how to read, and I will follow
your instructions.

Amy Squires
Proud E-Millionaire Club Silver Member

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From: "Judith Tramayne-Barth" <>
Subject: Search Engine Optimization

I feel that if you know how, you can actually get to the top of
the search engines that count, i.e. Yahoo, AOL, Google, Alta
Vista, etc. The ones people actually use!

Tom Falco


Yes, Tom,  I have to agree -- people can get to the top of the
search engines with a little work and know how.  I wrote an
article which is free to anybody who wants it.  It's called
"Gateway Pages My Patootie" and can either be read or sent for by
going to .  I, too am
placed at the top of quite a few search engines and my article
explains step-by-step how this is done.

The whole point of the Internet is to share information and help
each other be successful.  BTW, I am glad you are doing so well!

Judith Tramayne-Barth

Murder Mystery Novel

======================N e w P o s t i n g (1)========================
From: "Don Wetmore" <>
Subject: Job in half the time

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=============Site Review Request===============
From: "Andrew Lea" <>


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===================G u e s t A r t i c l e =====================
Does Hype Really Sell?
BY Angela Wu

It's just plain insulting.


Enough already.

Everytime we time we turn around, there's yet another
hyped-up sales letter staring us in the face.

Most of us online are 'taught' that hype works - or we
simply assume it does, since everyone else uses it.  After
all, why would they keep using it if it didn't work?

So we go ahead and try it ourselves.  We pack our own
sales copy with 'power words' and a variation of the same
tired old phrases we always see ...

... and then wonder why our ad response is so dismal.

Hype just doesn't work.  Oh, it undoubtedly generates some
sales - it's in our natures to believe what we want to
believe (myself included, unfortunately) - but in the end
you just won't win.

People are tired of being swindled and scammed at every
turn.  We're all tired of inflated claims that never come
true, and we're all tired of being told that everything's

If the product or opportunity doesn't deliver as promised,
you can bet you're going to have some pretty angry customers
on hand.  Definitely not a good thing if you're trying to
build a long-term, viable business.

More and more, people are turning towards the friendly,
engaging 'soft-sell'; sales copy that's written simply,
and which tells us exactly what we want to know:  how will
buying the product benefit ME?

Good copywriting doesn't depend on hyped-up claims. Instead,
it caters directly to the desires of the customers.  If your
product or service can meet those wants - which hopefully it
would, since they're your target audience! - then you have
to SHOW THEM how it meets their wants and then PERSUADE them
to buy.

So forget the hype.  Treat your visitors with respect and
learn honest, effective marketing methods.  The sales will


Angela's website, ,
features tutorials, tips, and articles on starting and
building an online income.  Subscribe to her popular ezine,
The Netrepreneur's Notebook - you'll get a newsletter packed
with practical information to help you make money online.
Subscribe FREE by sending a blank email to .

======================Joke of the Day=====================

A man died and went to The Judgment. St. Peter met him at
the Gates of Heaven and said, "Before you meet with God, I
thought I should tell you -- we've looked at your life, and your
really didn't do anything particularly good or bad. We're not at
all sure what to do with you. Can you tell us anything you did
that can help us make a decision?"

The newly arrived soul thought for a moment and replied,
"Yeah, once I was driving along and came upon a woman who
was being harassed by a group of bikers. So I pulled over, got
out my tire iron, and went up to the leader of the bikers. He
was a big, muscular, hairy guy with tattoos all over his body
and a ring pierced through his nose. Well, I tore the nose ring
out of his nose, and told him he and his gang had better stop
bothering the woman or they would have to deal with me!"

"I'm impressed," St. Peter responded, "When did this

"About two minutes ago," came the reply

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