A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of   22,395 subscribers   
                    on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                         Vol. 1, #206  Nov 16, 2000

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Topics in this issue:

         Sponsor Message
         Word from Publisher

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (4)
1. In response to SPAM issue
~ Dagmar Rakos
~ Viv Abbott
~ Mike Hills
~ Georg Birgmann

2.About Going Platinum
~ Bill Reed
~ Geoff Dodd
~ John R Vandervelde
~ Chris Kilian

3.Thanks for help and more questions.
~ Marty Mitchell

4. Which advertising methods are best?
~ Vishal Rao

N e w     P o s t s   (1)
1. Greg & Janet Cheeseman
~ How to write ads ?

Site Review Requests (1)

G u e s t   A r t i c l e (1)
By Phil Tanny

Joke of the Day (1)

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome  132   new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.


Today's guest article section talks about Pay per click search
engines and it appeared in I-sales discussion.
It is a very good review of Pay per click search engines and
results coming from them.


We have quite a few posts in this issue in regards to spam.
Speaking of which, I have a little addition to the discussion.

As you all know Adland Digest is 100% Opt-in publication and
it appears on average once a week.  Recently I have noticed
in my undeliverables to the list, information from geocities that
the Ip address of the server sending this newsletter is banned
and message to anybody who is on  my list from geocities won't be
Since this server is used only to deliver Adland Digest and this
list have a few hundreds of subscribers from, I was
quite puzzled why they would feel need to ban my messages.
For example I have over 4,000 email addresses from hotmail
and probably the same number from yahoo.

I have contacted Geocities twice to  this point and I have never received
any response explaining what is the reason for this.

For whatever reason they did this, I don't believe any ISP or email service
provider has right to interfere with correspondence of their members.

I don't believe anymore in times of great Uncle overlooking everybody's
shoulder and telling me who I can receive message from and from whom

Geocities should realize, that privacy  of customers in the  internet world
is getting more attention, and arbitrary decisions who is the good
email sender and who is the bad one doesn't belong to the bullies who
believe that they control  large chunk of the internet and nobody
can do anything to them.

Not responding to the email which is the inquiry on their decision
is the arrogance  of the highest calibre and hopefully will pay them
off in the long run.

My question to the group is this.
Do you know of organizations which are  dealing with privacy issues
where I could report Geocities in regards to the above topic


Again call for more success stories.
I run out of my supplies and expect to receive some more from you,
before next issue goes out.
You did great job so far.

If you think,  you have an interesting success story to tell, please send
it to digest as usual and indicate as such.
At the end of year I will create web page and will invite everybody
to vote for the "Success Story Of The Year"
Best voted story will receive one FREE year of advertising
in the form of  small button at the bottom of each AdlandPro page.
AdlandPro  receives  600,000 page viewings , 150,000 unique
visitors  each month.

To be eligible for the prize, this story has to be from your own

See existing success stories here

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From: "Dagmar Rakos" <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

As anybody who has been on the Net for some time all of our websites get
spammed by unsolicited mail regularly. And of course, we also tried
different approaches to the spammers. And yes, for some time, one of them
was the method of trying to "educate" spammers of using the more appropriate
and honest methods of Net marketing.

So we collected the spams into 1 mailbox at our parent company and once a
week I sent those sinners a response which was pointing at what's wrong with
their way of sending unsolicited email and how they can do marketing on the
Net properly.

We Only sent it to the people who sent Us their offer = SPAM First!

So imagine my surprise when 1 day we got announcement from Earthlink that we
were added to their Report-spam listing and also they sent our company name
to other antispam "Watchers".

Since none of us ever had anything to do with Earthlink we checked our logs
and: yes,  we found an unsolicited mail = SPAM from Earthlink address to
which our autoresponder sent our "educational material".

I contacted Earthlink immediately sending them our logs and proof that it
was THEIR User who sent us a Spam in the first place, to which we just

Result? Until This day = several months later, and many more email messages
Earthlink didn't even bother  to contact us, reply, or explain, not to
mention to apologize!

So our parent company name is now out there on I don't know on how many
"black listings" as a spammers, and yet we still continue getting regular
spams from Earthlinks addresses!

So, what am I supposed to do? To fill a libel suit against Earthlink?

And you know, what is the scariest thing?

We did a little tracing on our own, and yes, we found out, that that fellow
at Earthlink from which we got the spam was most likely Not the originator
of the spam! His email was simply misused by somebody else.

Now Think about it!

How do You know, that YOUR email is not being misused right now at this very

Where do you have the guarantee that somebody somewhere deep in  the
cyberspace didn't use Your Very Own email address, and Your company was put
already on thousands of the "black lists" of the Antispammers "Vigilantes" ?

Do you know how Hard is it to defend yourself and proof your innocence? How
much it will cost you from your life?

Just ask well-known marketer Jim Daniels from  how long
it took him to clear his name when his address was misused!

Mr. Peter G. Browne in Digest #205 states:

> I report quite a few SPAMMERS every week...
> time is better spent in having the SPAMMER shut down and >taken off
line whenever possible.

Well, I'll tell you, I am scared, deadly frightened of all those
self-proclaimed "warriors for justice" out there who accuse first, and get
the facts later! Witch hunts never brought anything good to this world.

Isn't it much more civilized just to ignore that little annoyance of some
virtual unsolicited email, or install spam filter or just hit the Delete

So I would like to appeal to Every Sensible Human Being:

Please, PLEASE, remember:

Even if you would bring harm just to One person's life it is NOT worthy All
the spams in the world!

Because That person can be YOU, or Your Dearest!

One more  observation:

 How about all the "Spams" - Junk Mails, or whatever you call it which I am
getting into my mailbox day after day without Ever asking for it! and Nobody
seems to be worried/angry about that, not to mention the environmental
issues and poor trees.

Or, did you ever heard of anybody who would Take to court Wal-Mart or Sears
that they sent him Unsolicited Mail? Or even put them on some sort of a
"Black list"?

Not to mention all the dumb primitive commercials on TV you never asked for,
which interrupt you right in the middle of your favorite program...

Never heard of any legal actions about those "spammers", did you?

Can you imagine what would happen to marketing and advertisement industry if
All of these Unsolicited Mails/Messages (because this Is what they all
simply Are!) would suddenly disappeared or be banned?

This society would be put into it's knees in just a few days.

So, why it is suddenly so much fuss about something you can delete by one
mouse click?

Isn't it just that a lot of people have a "little dictators" in them who
simply love to feel "how the power tastes"...?

Very, very scary. This is exactly how all the "-ism"  regimes were started,
and could blossom.
[I can tell, I was born in one of them.]

So please, next time, before you go on the "spam hunt" think about it!

And as a final question to Mr. P. Browne to his posting:

>...If a person sends you an e-mail does that give you the right to
>transfer that address to an OPT IN list for a publication?"

Mr. Browne, and does this e-mail give you the Right to harm somebody -
maybe - innocent?


Dagmar Rakos
WebPages Cards Creations

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From: Viv Abbott <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Good Morning, Bogdan and all fellow Adlanders,

I am following the current spam discussion eagerly.

Tom must be new on the web or he would be much more
sensitive to the whole spam question. He would then
know that spam is surely the single most annoying
factor on the web.

Other stuff, we can take or leave.But spam just gets
us, clogs up the works, wearies us incessantly.

Take this situation. I run a web site for a voluntary
group who promote poetry and the arts: a not-for-
profit reg. company. There e-address has NEVER before
been used in discussion groups, ads, etc. It just sits
on the web page, a gentle invitation to like minded
souls, to those interested in the poetry of a dead
white nineteenth century male's poetry, to contact us,
so we can let them know what we are doing.

A minority interest, I think  you will agree. But
basically harmless.

So, what am I to do now? Last Friday, I got 73 emails. One
was related to HOPKINS. Others varied from hardy soul trying
to sell us gizmos to enlarge unmentionable anatomical
parts  (that we don't even possess  :)) -without surgery-!,
to having our pet painted in oil.. , Affordable
Offshore Income!   ....  GETTING OUT THE VOTE IS THE KEY!"
- Republican National Committee ..  ,  to PASS THIS E-MAIL
COVERED ON  ELECTION DAY" to make $$$$$  etc. You know: you
get this stuff too.

You get the picture. Now, besides having no earthly interest
in any of these propositions, it would be quite impossible to
involve myself with most of them from a green field in Ireland.

Now, I notice many spams sport $$$$ signs.  When was the last
time anyone saw spam with Euro signs, or YEN signs or  ...
an Irish sign?

And what do Americans think of some of the great Ralph Nadar
election antics  . . . Voteswap 2000, a Nader-Trader vote site
shut down by California authorities.  Was he actually using web
and spam to swap votes? Hey, I thought that guy was the last
knight in shining armour! Was this a spam, a scam too far? Am
I missing something? I'm just a puzzled greenhorn!

Can we draw a conclusion from this? Is the $$$$ zone producing
the bulk of spam?  (I've just filtered out the $$$$)

Yesterday, I foolishly decided to be good, to just calmly hit
the remove address docilely and get myself (or poor old Hopkins)
removed politely.

What happened? 90% returned undeliverable.

More clutter. More cyber litter. Cyber trash. More annoyance.
The remove addresses were just another con.

So, must I continue to wait patiently while this trash downloads?
Daily, strain my eyes trying to identify REAL communications as
speedily as possible before deleting the rubbish?

What I'm now thinking of doing is closing down my email
entirely. No email. No more 'killer appliance'. How can I
continue to waste time daily with this avalanche of idiotic

But, is there no way we can get through to those spoilers
with their $$$ signs and their anatomical problems that it
is ABUSE to foist unwanted propositions on anyone,whether
online or off-line.

What those folk need is a gizmo to enlarge their brains,
whatever about the rest of their sad anatomies!

This is the single biggest problem facing people on the web.
These spoilers are making ANY serious use of the internet
increasingly problematic. So, Tom. listen carefully to the
Adlanders. Don't go the spam route. It is just disaster.

Spam is bullying. Spam is theft. Say a big NO to spam.

I'm looking forward to suggestions from fellow Adlanders.
This problem has to be addressed.

Viv Abbott

Celebrate poetry, literature and the arts with us at the
Irish Hopkins website, an Irish site for an English poet

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============
From: "Mike Hills" <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue


I have just read the latest edition of AdLandPro and the on going discussion
about Spamming and Tom Johnson although I did miss the original article,
 must have received too many Spammed letters and deleted everything ). I too
have been accused of Spamming and I put my hands up I DID SPAM.

But now I know better,

It all started when I first noticed all the MLM,and get rich quick Schemes,
I then Started 2 sites and
and joined a few programs. I wanted my programs to succeed just like
everyone else, so I started to post to message boards, send e mails etc.
Then came that terrible e mail accusing me of spamming. I was gutted, my
heart sank and I couldn't work on my site for a few days. But when I went
back and looked into it and I DID SPAM sorry but I did.

So I decided to do a bit of research on the subject and came across the
following sites.

I decided to keep these URL's to go back to.

I now run an eZine which people can OPT IN to at the site. Now when some one Spams me I no longer
report them on the first occasion ( I do if they persist). I write to them
telling them that there is no need to Spam me, just post their program on my
site in the Ads section and I WILL read it. I also include the above 2 URL's
for their information.

In many cases about SPAMMING I am sure it is ignorance as with myself and it
is up to everyone to teach Netiquette. The funny thing is that now I don't
SPAM ( because I now know better ) I am actually getting better results from
the programs I advertise.

If you have an eZine why not submit it to an eZine finder list like or to get referrals a downline club like MyEcom

I also have my ezine listed at twodollarads They don't pay me but I
receive about 30 new referrals a week from them. By using the above I no
longer SPAM and I have a steadily growing and loyal readership many of whom
will join my programs because they know I give good advice that they can
trust, not just because I said so. Building something worth keeping takes
time NOT hype. You will not be an internet millionaire tomorrow or even next
week or year but you just may be in two or three.

Thanks & Regards

Mike Hills


==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============
From: Georg Birgmann <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Hi there!

Im not sure if the anti-spam hype is not some kind of overdone. All the
oh-so-straight guys, who write SPAM and SPAMMER in all capital letter, are
doing serious online business more harm than any spammer around!

Look at this:

I run a financial website, and try to expand my business, gain more
subscribers. So what to do? I thought doing a link exchange would be a good
point to start. I thought about the HOW some time, and came down to trying
to do an exchange with other financial websites primarily, in order to have
my links exposed to a targeted public.

Fine! I logged on to the internet, started searching those numerous
financial websites, looked whether they provided useful content, verified
that they had a link page.

Five days of work behind me, I had 170 email addresses of the financial
sites webmasters. I sent a friendly message (Subject: Link exchange request)
to them, offering a link exchange, using some list managing software. Fact:
I did a "mass mailing", to people I did not know, using a tool that enabled
sending these message in one large block to all 170 webmasters. Its also
fact that some 40% responded and did exchange links with me.

But then I was really a little surprised, when my ISP contacted me, and told
me that they received 9 complaints of people who said they had received
unwanted email. Huh????

I was confused:
1. They run a website.
2. They publish an email address, where to contact them.
3. They have a link page, where they have already put other links.

Thinking of their complaint, I came down to these three possibilities:

a.) The links on their link pages were installed by the holy ghost, rushing
into their servers. - Not very probable, but maybe.

b.) The links were installed, when they were contacted by other webmasters
like myself. - O.K. what is it that makes them co-operating with these
people, but accusing me on the other hand of being (the following is a
quote) "a damn rotten dirty spammer"?

c.) The links were installed after they have contacted somebody first - is
it them who are the "damn rotten dirty spammers" themselves?

So, what do I want to say: Whenever there is something bad and unpleasant,
like spam, people do the right thing: They react and try to defend
themselves against it. But everytime this happens, there are some extremely
defensive people, who forget their initial targets over defending against
the "attack". I mean, a webmaster who shouts "SPAM" whenever he receives a
message from somebody he does not know, without even reading the message, is
not very clever, is he?

I do not want to defend the idiots who use links2u and other services to
tell You that You could earn $ 1000000000 in five seconds or so.
Id appreciate never hearing from them again!

But what becomes another problem today, are spam fighters. They are so keen
on finding spammers, that they see them everywhere. I do not like those
IDIOTS either!

I think their efforts to report spammers take that much time, they will not
be able to concentrate on what we are all here for: BUSINESS. If they have
to mail to ISPs and agencies,... they are wasting their time - but I dont
care about them.

BUT I CARE ABOUT MY BUSINESS! Im seriously trying to do business, and I do
not want to have to deal with accuses of spamming every time I send out mail
to more than one recipient. This is stealing my time, and in my case, I had
to change the ISP, which forced me offline for two days, hurting my

Think of it!

Georg Birgmann


P.S.: I thank all of You in advance, who hopefully take the
time to complete our webmaster poll.

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From: Bill Reed <>
Subject: About Going Platinum

You asked for our opinions about Going Platinum and I
am going to try and give you my thoughts on it.

I honestly think this is exactly the kind of Affiliate
or membership program we have needed for a long time.
If they manage to do as planned, the members will have
untold ways to make money from being a part of it.

The concept covers about every element of Internet
Marketing. With the members sharing in the revenues
from that effort.

I Particularly liked the fact that to get into earning
position the total out of pocket expense was only $25
and there are no farther expense until you are making
money, with no expense for months that you do not make
anything if, you should have such months. I do not
believe that will happen once it gets underway.

I believe that this concept is so good that I did opt
for the paid entry right off. I am proud to have my
membership in Going Platinum and I have no doubt that
it will become the premiere group to belong to within
a short time.

I have a website that promotes Business Opportunities
and I firmly believe this is the best of them all.

These are my own views and thanks for the opportunity
to express them.
Bill Reed


==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From: "Geoff Dodd" <>
Subject: About Going Platinum

I am sitting here in Western Australia, also caught in the fever of
My default signature now reflects it, I have changed my text ad with you,
and I have built doorway pages to a new mini-site, about GoingPlat...
It's viral influence is infecting the Whole Net!!! Personally, I believe
it will be a winner.
Ambition? Massive.. worldwide Free ISP.A TV Network, to boot.
Backing? Massive....   public corporations, we are told.
Site Quality, tools, professionalism? Right up there...  pursuit of
excellence stuff.
The promised "Spillover" is truly starting to spill over now. It will
probably change the loyalties of surfers, away from the big ones of today:
Yahoo! AltaVista, (also offering a massive Search Engine),Going Plat.
will be paying surfers a share of Ad. revenues "for their Internet usage."
I must be a great 'believer', a disciple, ...just hope the arithmetic adds

Geoff Dodd

Western Australia.

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From: "John R Vandervelde" <>
Subject: About Going Platinum

Frankly, after really looking into the program, I think that it is closer
to being a pyramid than any program I've ever looked into.
Since there does not seem to be any products sold, all the income comes
from joining fees. I say give it a few months and then the justice
will shut it down.

John Van

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.4)=============
From: "Chris Kilian" <>
Subject: About Going Platinum

Hi Bogdan,

I have seen a big increase in ads for the Going Platinum site too, and since
it was obviously a "hot" program, I peeked around.

Most of us that have been around the block a time or two are familiar with
AllAdvantage, and the prospect of catching the "next" AllAdvantage early is
exciting.  AllAdvantage grew to 5,000,000+ members before that program
self-destructed. I know it is still around, but as a member with 8000+ in my
own downline, I can assure you that the earnings are in the toilet compared
to the pre-sweeps stage.  Hundreds of dollars have dropped to tens of
dollars in monthly income, and my hopes for being hit by a jackpot are as
high as my hopes to pick the lotto numbers in my state (not high.)

I do not know how much reading you have done on the message boards.  I
gather the membership is close to 100,000 thus far, and lots of members are
buying ads from us to increase their downline.  Lots of excitement is always
a part of any new program.  I understand too that some folks have been paid
from downline membership fees - that seems to be the only site income at the
moment.  I am NOT counting the money from Compubank which gives you a free
$60 if you join that program correctly.

It seems a bit early to pass judgment.  There does not seem to be any harm
in joining for free and tossing a link into a newsletter or on your site
someplace, but you should know that you miss the "spillover" from the site's
own recruiting. On the other hand, most of the programs I have previously
joined that promised "spillover" must have spilled somewhere else because I
did not see much of that :-)

I gave them $25 to see what will happen.  With a relatively small
membership, a good promoter still has plenty of time to recruit if this
looks really good in another month or so.  If the program never pans out, it
is simply the cost of an ongoing online education.

This is in the "nothing ventured, nothing gained" category for me right now,
but then so was AllAdvantage for a while.

Chris Kilian

Turn Your Measly $2 into A
Targeted Marketing Campaign

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From: "Marty Mitchell" <>
Subject: Thanks for help and more questions.


I just wanted to take a few minutes to thank you and several of your readers
for the great response I got on my Site Review request a couple months ago.
I had several responses and all of them had legitimate ideas to improve my
site...... and believe me,  it needed improving!  Some of the HTML code was
so bad my site couldn't even be viewed with Netscape!! I especially want to
thank Nancy Kramer for all of her help.  She more or less "adopted" me and
tutored me through most of the changes I needed to make.  I also need to
thank Robin Forbes for some excellent suggestions.  Thanks to Robin, Nancy
and several others,  I made the following changes:

1.  I got my own DOMAIN NAME.  This was the best advise that I received.
Any of you out there using "free web sites" and expecting to be taken
seriously,  think again.
2.  I added a printable order page to simplify the "snail mail" ordering
3.  I improved my meta tags.
4.  I put better looking images on my site.
5.  Changed the background and added some color.
6.  I am taking an "HTML and Web Site Development" class at the local
7.  I added a logo to my index page
8.  I improved the links to all of the pages on my site...... and lot's of
other little tweaks here and there...............
After all of this,  guess what????  MY SALES HAVE IMPROVED!!!

I'm still looking for an affordable merchant account/shopping cart so that I
can accept credit cards and make it easier to place an order.  I'm still
using PayPal for all credit card payments.  It works pretty good,  but I
know I could be doing better with a more legit credit card acceptance method
and shopping cart.

I'm sure I'll never be through working on my site and making improvements,
but thanks to you and your readers, I know I have got a good start to what I
hope is a long and prosperous adventure!

Thanks everyone!

Marty Mitchell

Mitchell's Collectibles

Note from Moderator.

Check out this resources at Freebonanza in regards to
merchant accounts. One of them is free.


==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From: "Vishal Rao" <>
Subject: Re: Which advertising methods are best?

Hi Keith,

If you are short on time, then I would definitely suggest
you go for targeted ezine advertising.

Position of your ads also count when you advertise in
ezines. Top sponsor ads always give the best value for
money. Even if your ad is good, if it is placed along with
10-15 ads at the bottom of the ezine, it will hardly be

The key is to buy top sponsor position in smaller ezines
than buying regular classified ads in big ezines.

If you are short on time, search engines are the best way to
get targeted traffic to your website. If mastered properly,
search engines can deliver a long-term, steady stream of
targeted traffic to you website... that too FREE! So search
engines should NEVER be ignored.

Create a few theme-based web pages and submit them to search
engines. Who knows one of them might turn out on the top of
the charts!

Here is a link to a great site on search engines.

This forum dedicated to search engines is also a great place
where you can get lot's of good tips.

Also read this excellent course by Ken Envoy wherein he
beautifully explains how to create theme-based web pages
that rank high on search engines.

Send a blank e-mail to to receive
the course.

Hope it helps.

Vishal Rao

SKY-ROCKET Your Website Sales Up To 1700% In Only 17 Days Or
Less - FREE eBook!

======================N e w P o s t i n g (1)========================
From: "Greg & Janet Cheeseman" <>
Subject: How to write ads ?


Do you have a place to learn how to write ads or a letter for a business
that I am trying to set up. I need help with it and I am not sure where to
start. Janet

take back your life.
Free E-mail Newsletter shows you how!

=============Site Review Request(1)===============
From: Billy E Martin Jr <>

Hello Everyone out there in Adland,

I've recently created a site for individuals new to marketing their home
business and I would like to get some feedback on it to see if I've included
the types of items that people are looking for. I would very much appreciate
each of you viewing my site
at and then sending me an email with your comments, criticisms,
concerns, praises, etc. Thanks so much for taking a few minutes out of your
busy day to help me help others.

Billy Martin

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===================G u e s t A r t i c l e =====================
From: Phil Tanny <>

This post appeard in  I-sales discussion.

I submitted a post earlier (thread was entitled Cost-Effective
Traffic Generation) regarding my interest in purchasing traffic in
the easiest possible manner.  I decided to start with the pay per
click search engines and used Allan Gardyne's and Nathan Power's
great site, as my guide.
Here's a report of my experiences for any of you considering this
source of traffic.

I'm independently tracking both page visits and the number of
subscribe requests submitted from each search engine every day. Thus
I can precisely measure both the quantity and quality of the traffic
I've purchased from each engine. For our purposes, quality is simply
the percent of visitors from any engine who submitted a subscribe

I've submitted 15,000 keywords to all engines. Bids are in a range
from .02 (ePilot and NetFlip) to .13 (GoTo).

The table below is for October 2000.  All the figures are daily
averages (some of the accounts have not been open the entire month).
The field "conversion" refers to the percent of visitors who became
subscribers.  The field "conversion" and "price per subscriber" give
you a guide to quality and value of traffic.


Engine - Visitors - Conversion - Price per Sub
7Search --- 23 --- 2.3% --- $1.45
FindWhat --- 266 --- 6.7% --- $1.78
GoTo --- 389 --- 8.0% --- $1.64
Bay9 --- 19 --- 3.9% --- $1.90
Kanoodle --- 22 --- 4.4% --- $1.93
NetFlip --- 26 --- 1.1% --- $1.76
Ah-Ha --- 9 --- 15.8% --- $1.22
ePilot --- 106 --- 4.6% --- $0.42
CleanSearch --- 2 --- 0 --- n/a    (account open 1 week)
SearchCactus --- 1452 --- .1% --- $14.52!!  (account open 1 day)

(High Ah-Ha conversion may be due to accounting error at Ah-Ha)


Obviously, GoTo is the biggie.  They are a professionally run outfit
with great traffic and excellent customer support. If they weren't
so fanatic about relevancy I would get even more traffic from them.
To illustrate, I submitted the same 15,000 keywords to all engines.
GoTo only accepted a few hundred, while other engines accepted all
or at least the overwhelming majority.  Ironically, the terms were
generated by taking the topic categories listed on my site and
expanding them with GoTo's Search Term Suggestion Tool.  GoTo didn't
accept _a single one_ of the 15,000 terms it's tool generated for
us.  Go figure...

FindWhat was the pleasant surprise for me.  Customer service is
great and I like the interface.  In my experience they are clearly
the only real rival to GoTo.   FindWhat is my overall favorite pay
per click engine.

Given that the conversion rate for FindWhat (who accepted all 15,000
keywords) is about the same as GoTo (who only accepted a few
hundred) I conclude that the users themselves found our keywords an
acceptable guide to our site and that GoTo's relevancy concerns are
somewhat exaggerated.

3/4 of all my traffic comes from either FindWhat or GoTo so if time
is short that's the place to start.

As you may know, some of the pay per click search engines pay their
users to search.  I was interested to see what impact this would
have on the quality of traffic.  It's considerable in our
experience.  Examples are ePilot and NetFlip, both of whom pay for

GoTo had a conversion ratio of 8%.
FindWhat had a conversion ratio of 6.7%


ePilot had a conversion ratio of 4.6%
NetFlip had a conversion ratio of 1.1%

So traffic that comes from search engines that pay for searches
would appear to be somewhere between 50% to 10% of the quality of
the other pay per click engines.

This isn't necessarily a problem so long as you pay less for that
traffic.  As example, note that our cost per sub at ePilot is the
lowest of all engines.  That's because we only pay .02 for all
traffic from ePilot.   On the other hand the NetFlip traffic is of
such low quality that even when we pay the absolute minimum
allowable per click, it still results in a high price per sub.

Another example is Kanoodle.   Kanoodle has two settings choices
within their accounts, Brand Builder and Sales Driver. Brand Builder
refers to traffic that comes from pay per search partners.   We
tested Brand Builder one day and it generated over _800 more
visitors per day_ than the Sales Driver setting!  Wow!  Regrettably,
this traffic was of such low quality that after only one day I went
back to Sales Driver.

Refer to the chart above for a really extreme example of low quality
traffic.   As of this writing we just completed our first day with
Search Cactus.  We received 1452 visitors and 2 subscribers.  That's
a conversion of .1% and a price per sub of $14.52!!  So, based on
this one day sample, SearchCactus traffic may turn out to be 10
times worse in quality than NetFlip, our previous lowest quality
provider, and about 80 times worse than GoTo.  It's hard to imagine
how anyone could make money buying this kind of traffic at any price.

So in summary, with the exception of ePilot, pay per search traffic
has not been a good value purchase for us.

Ah-Ha has a great interface, tho quite low traffic.   They have a
feature that allows me to set all 15,000 bids to number one position
with a limit of X cents with just one click. This is extremely handy
for managing a large number of listings. 7Search also has this
feature.  In comparison accomplishing the same thing with the other
interfaces would take at a minimum hours or more likely days with
15,000 keywords (tho you can often talk the support folks at
different engines in to doing this for you).   On the other hand
there is currently some type of billing problem with my Ah-ha
account and they show me out of funds long before they have
delivered the right amount of traffic. Awaiting their reply on that.

It was interesting to visit almost every business in this niche and
find out who is ready to compete and who isn't.

SimpleSearch didn't reply at all to any of 3 mails I sent asking to
be a customer.  Their sign up form didn't work in any of 3 visits
over a period of about a week.  Nobody home at SimpleSearch

Sprinks will only accept a check if it is over $2500, which
indicates to me a general lack of interest in our business.

(Many of the sites I visited discouraged payment by check by hiding
the payment info).

SearchHound has the slowest web site on the Net in my experience.
Repeated attempts to get in and get the info I needed failed.

SearchGalore won't accept Excel files, I asked twice. In order to
open an account with them I would have had to fill out their online
form 150 times.  Not recommended if you have a lot of customized
listings.  It might work if you have a small number of listings, or
if those listings all have the same URL, title and description.

A number of the other sites listed near the bottom end of appeared to be too amateurish to gain
my confidence.

We're now up to about 1,000 visitors a day using only pay per click
search engines.  As noted above, 3/4 of that traffic comes from GoTo
and FindWhat.   Readers are generally advised to avoid any search
engine that pays it's visitors to search.

Hope this is helpful!

Phil Tanny


======================Joke of the Day=====================

"An abstract noun," the teacher said, "is something you can
think of, but you can't touch it.  Can you give me an example
of one?"

"Sure," a teenage boy replied.  "My father's new car."

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