A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of   22,352 subscribers
                    on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                         Vol. 1, #207  Nov 21, 2000

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Topics in this issue:

         Sponsor Message
         Word from Publisher

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (3)
1. In response to SPAM issue
~ Mark W
~ Robert Lee
~ Peter G. Browne
~ Rina
~ Tom Falco
~ Linda Caroll

2.About Going Platinum
~ Robert Lee
~ Melanie A. Kozik
~ Dave Reno
~ Robert Lee

N e w     P o s t s   (2)
1. Pam
~ I have used click thru, click for hits, and ilove clicks

2. Fred Munkachy
~ New site dedicated to new items...

Site Review Requests (0)

G u e s t   A r t i c l e (1)
How to write ads ?
By Vishal Rao

Joke of the Day (1)

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome  145   new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.


After relatively quiet period in life of Adland Digest, I'm now bombarded
with posts regarding spam  from both ends  of the spectrum. In general,
there are no people liking  spam but there are many people who feel
that spam is becoming a problem because of  lack of clear definition
when spam was committed and who spammed first.

E.g. if I use autoresponders in my business which can be requested
by anybody and then I'm being accused of spamming because my
autoresponder was fired. Is this a spam? In other instances if I use
email address displayed on the  site to send a letter with inquiries
or offers  related to that particular business. Is it fair to accuse me of
As some of you might know I was accused of spamming in the
past  because of sending   Adland Digest. I can easily relate
to those who contributed in this and last issue complaining of
being accused of unsubstantiated spamming. Although I have sympathy
for everybody who was implicated in spamming in any undeserved way,
I must say that  sympathy won't be of much help if you don't take all
precautions in your business to be proactive and  predict  situations
when you can run into troubles. My business sends each day on average over
15,000 emails in form   of autoresponders and messages supporting
my services. There are days where more than 40,000 messages
are being sent. As I mentioned I was accused of spamming once
in the past by one crazy women (many of Adland Digest subscribers
experienced this after defending me) but  in general this hasn't
happened since than  (not counting messages from confused
subscribers who  didn't realize that they elected to be part
of Adland Digest and then forgot about it).

Here are a few guidelines which I've learned.
Make sure that you do following when contacting anybody to
avoid any accusations of spam.

1. Provide way to remove the user from your list.
    (possibly through web based forms and email)

2. Identify yourself clearly who you are and why the message is
    being sent.
    (don't say Thank you for inquiring about .. or This is not spam)
    (don't use email address from hotmail or other known free web
    based services)

3. Use  name of the party you are sending your letter to in the subject
   of the message and make your messages personal.

4. Refer to owner's site if you know it.

5.  Make sure that  "to" part of the message has receiving party email
    not a blind copy. ( Many systems assume this as a spam by definition)

6.  Don't buy any list to send messages. Use rather services which
    run opt-in lists.

7.  Don't harvest email addresses from websites like or newsletters like Adland Digest.
    (You are not only  causing  trouble for yourself but also
    for me. People don't want to use my services.)

8.  Build your own list by using free services initially and let handle all
of administrative issues by  site owners.

These are just a few of main points which you should watch for.


==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From: "Mark W." <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Hi Bogdan and Everyone,

Wow! I can't help but respond now to this spam discussion! I have been
a member of Adland for three years and have lurked here in the background
for the same amount of time. I often considered joining in other discussions
but have kept myself far too busy until now.

Now I also know what it feels like to be accused of spam! Over three years
of 12 to 16 hour days, working with little or no budget, but seeking my
dream. All I want is to find a balance in life and some mediocrity :-)

So, I join many networks, create a simple web site, learn from many
mistakes, still have a long way to go etc. What did I do wrong?

I set up an autoresponder! Why? Because I discovered that my email
address was being harvested at all those postings I was making at
other's Free Classified and FFA sites. Okay... well I own so many of my own,
I can post only at my networks and let whoever is going to harvest my
address go right ahead and do it. Then they will get ONE and only ONE reply
for each email they send me! Isn
't that nice?

I never, repeat, never use or pay for a bulk email service. I never send out
any unsolicited emails from any source whatsoever. I never collect anyone's
email address to send anything later on to those "sinners" as someone put
it. All I do is delete whatever I don't want hundreds of times a day.

I have other autoresponders in place on my affiliate sites that send ONE and
only ONE response to anyone who posts there. I receive a copy and used to
save them but it took up too much space and wasn't worth the effort.

In no way, shape or form do I want to contact anyone who doesn't want
me to contact them. If they don't visit my web site I figure it just wasn't
meant to be and keep moving on. Then..... last week I saw this email in my
inbox from Wayne Davies, owner of Megaresponse, my anchor site.
It said "Spam Complaint" and as I read it my heart sank and then I became
angry. Someone accused me of sending them "hundreds of emails."
Wayne had to deactivate my account. I understand that, because I am
not more important than the "Whole." Wayne had to do what he had to do.
But..... me? What had I done? Actually, nothing. I really had to think hard
and my immediate response to Wayne was ripped off hastily in anger.
I apologized to him and went about the task of researching what I could
since he had been good enough to give me my accusers' email

I discovered my accusers' web site through a Whois search. I surfed
through their site and discovered products for which I had received UCE!
Unfortunately, I had deleted the UCE I received like I always do. There is
no real proof I had received it, except in my heart where the Truth is.
I explained this to Wayne and he reactivated my account Thankfully!

I'm not sure what my point to all this is, but I read someone's statement
about Spam Vigilantes. I agree! There seem to be FOOLS who think they have
the power to judge based on no information or evidence. They just spit out
their garbage with no consideration! Or, perhaps they get some devious
pleasure from heaping suffering on others, whether right or wrong. These are
some really, really sick people!
No, I will not candy-coat my words. Anyone who wilfully causes others harm
without conscience or consideration needs to be dealt with. Guess what? It
up to us to deal with them! There is a power, at least in my belief system,
WILL deal with them in His way and in His time! My suffering pales in
comparison. So, you folks that are sending out that bulk email to lists that
contain addresses from autoresponders and then choose to complain
when you receive responses..... keep complaining. It's later for you! And,
I'll keep you in my prayers.


Mark W. ( Smiling..... )

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From: "Robert Lee" <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

"I've been accused of spamming!" - Tom Johnson.
You've sent out unsolicited email. You are a spammer. Period. The accusation
is enough for you to take a long hard look at how you develop and maintain
your email lists. You do have a domain name and an email address to match
don't you?
Tom, stop using an anonymous email addresses to address your email lists
with. There are plenty of legitimate newsletter providers that are free and
will handle the spam complaints for you, more or less.
Send no more list emails and advise new subscribers to join using your new
list service. I have to wonder how long your email subscribers have been on
your list. Do those email addresses even exist anymore? Bogdan may be able
to add some input here about AOL and other providers that just start
bouncing emails and then accusing you of spamming.
I am using a double sign-up form for a new area of web business that I am
starting at:
This site is to help people that have aspirations of making money through
affiliations with online dating services. They can join programs and find
ways to create content rich sites that will keep visitors continually
finding their site and signing up with their selected dating service
programs. To join the newsletter, sent out about once a month, they fill out
a form, which I receive, then I add them to my listbot newsletter service
which also sends a request for membership to the list. If they don't reply
to this email, they are not subscribed. It is extra work, but much safer!
And I don't allow hotmail, aol or other anonymous email addresses to join.

Robert Lee
Dating Service Directory
Vote Here For The Dating Service Of The Year!

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============
From: "Peter G. Browne" <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Hello Bogdan & Fellow Adlanders,

Well it appears that we have a little debate going here with the issue of
spam <no capital letters>. It appears that Dagmar Rakos might have missed
the point or perhaps just doesn't get it. He refers to mail coming into a
mailbox (as in Postal Mail) or to an ad on television.
<How about all the "Spams" - Junk Mails, or whatever you call it which I am
getting into my mailbox day after day without Ever asking for it! and Nobody
seems to be worried/angry about that, not to mention the environmental
issues and poor trees.>
Most of this issue is addressed by the postal service and this junk mail is
called Third Class Mail and there is a cost to send it and it isn't cheap
you might want to look into it.
A lot if it is also recycled paper and you can also look into that as well.

The big difference here is that Postal Mail and television ads are paid for
by the people putting them on air and in the mailbox. Have you ever looked
into the cost to produce a 30 second television commercial? $50,000 usually
isn't even enough.

Spam in my e-mail is my bandwidth and my connection not that of the sender.
It involves my costs for being on-line, this is a bit different that Third
Class Bulk mail or a television commercial.

Do they still have ads on television these days, I seem to watch so little
of commercial television anymore.

I would  also like to mention that I did state that I did not report the
issue that we are currently discussing to anyone I only questioned how
Tom Johnson got my e-mail address and I am sure quite a few more.
Mr Johnson complained that he was reported for spamming
and others also responded to this wondering how he got their address, the
posting in Adlands by Mr. Johnson was a confirmation of that

We are asked " So, why it is suddenly so much fuss about something you can
delete by one mouse click?"
Good question and for me, by my count that would equal  well over 1,500
mouse clicks in less than week. I do not just jump up and shout SPAMMER
at the drop of a hat. I delete a lot of these e-mails that claim this is a
one time mailing. My response to that is B.S., I report people
when the need arises and I do so very carefully. Very often I even give the
person the opportunity to answer me before I take issue with the so called

<Very, very scary. This is exactly how all the "-ism" regimes were started,
and could blossom.>

Wow now netiquette is being compared to an "ism". spamism if we might, it
almost fits. Not to detract from some horrific times in history, but get

I asked :
>...If a person sends you an e-mail does that give you the right to transfer
that address to an OPT IN list for a publication?">
I was answered:
<Mr. Browne, and does this e-mail give you the Right to harm somebody -
maybe - innocent?>

If this person collects e-mail addresses from various publications like
Adlands please explain how there is innocence on his behalf because
I don't see it.

Along with my post I included a ruling by the Canadian Courts, just so
people could see that the issue of Spam in Canada is dealt with right at
the source, the ISP, and the results are strict. I don't believe in witch
hunts, but send the same piece of Unsolicited E-mail more than once
and call it whatever you like, it is SPAM <capitol letters on that one>

Well that's about it for now and I am sure that this won't sit well with
everyone but it's only opinions and they all count, even mine. That's why
we live a world without the internet"ism".

Peter G. Browne

Website Hosting With More Than Just Bells & Whistles
Visit Us On-Line at >

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============
From: "Rina" <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Hi everyone,

I have experienced all that Viv has mentioned about receiving spam.  Hitting
the remove button does not work as most of them would return as bounced

An autoresponder may be a bane especially when you're on a holiday and need
to make your business auto-pilot.  You are trading functionality and
convenience with a small risk to someone complaining and falsely accusing
you of spam.  Because there ARE people who use this autoresponder trick in
the hope to "gain" more exposure to his/her opportunity.

What filters away spam may filter away genuine enquiries too.  That's also
another problem.

An email address is just like a telephone number, anyone can contact you.
But it would a long time before an email can tell a spam from a non-spam -
or perhaps never.

In my humble opinion, if I send an invitation ONCE to someone to join my
subscription list or to attend a free seminar, it should not be considered
spam unless I email again and again and again.  Receiving email from someone
who's a total stranger would be so much more pleasant if everyone keeps to
the "Do not email more than once if there's no response." rule.

There is no fool-proof way to stop and prevent spam.  What do I do?  I just
forward the emails to the service-provider and keep my fingers crossed that
they would terminate the spammer's email account.  I am not going to waste
my money on suing Hotmail or whoever because the last person to gain
the most would be the lawyer.  The most I would do is to configure all spam
to go directly into the Trash bin.

Other suggested ways of overcoming spam that some of my friends have
suggested are:-

1)  Create multiple email accounts:-

2)  Use "disposable" web-based email accounts.  Each email account would be
terminated after two month's of usage.  This would also mean you would only
reveal your true email contact to your customers and subscribers.

3)  Revoke any subscriber's right to receive emails from you again if they
spam you.  Yes, I have received spam even from my subscribers.  You can
either tell them, "Make me subscribe to your list and I will gladly receive
your third-part offers." or delete their email contact from your
list - you DON'T need spammers to bring you business, and neither do
you want your subscribers to spam you.
I would do the latter.  Informing them of the consequences at the VERY FIRST
welcome message to your subscribers should do the trick.  Something like
"We appreciate if you donot spam us all spammers would have their
subscriptions and blah blah automatically deleted and without further
Please use the internet wisely." or a tongue-in-a-cheek warning:"Please
do not spam me as my momma will hunt you down."

Feel free to comment as the above are only suggestions made by others like


==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.5)=============
From: Tom Falco
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

I think part of the problem of spammers is, they don't know
they are spamming.

I have received the same spam daily: some site offering me
merchant accounts. If this isn't spam, I don't know what is.
Another idiot offers me inkjet and laser cartridges.

Just because I join a discussion group, or publish an ezine
of my own, it is no reason for every Tom, Dick and Harry
to send me unwanted ads.

One fool actually clicked on our "contact us" page
and emailed the same add daily to every single one
of our pop up accounts.

Just laugh to yourself while you delete the spam. Don't let
it get to you. The joke is on the spammer. If they honestly
think they are going to get business this way they are truly
lost souls. I honestly can't believe in this day and age that
people actually spam and think business will follow.

Most spammers go from site to site, or even from ezine
to ezine, like right now, some spammers are probably
gathering our email addresses from this mailing. So
I suppose out of the few of us listed in this issue, they
think they are going to receive business. Guess they feel
that emailing a handful of people at a time will work.

They are all novices. Just hit the "delete" key and laugh
them off. It is the only way to deal with junk mail.

Don't even open the mail. Don't send "remove" to get
off their list, it only shows them that the account is active.

Laugh it off. "Delete" with a smile on your face. I do.

Tom Falco

publishes Marketing &
Promotion ezine. To subscribe,

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.6)=============
From: Linda Caroll <>
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Dear Bogdan and fellow subscribers:

I have been following the "spam" thread and would like
to inject some common sense into the last thread..

For those who may not have followed the entire thread,
"Tom" posted to the list asking why people were saying he
was spamming when all he was doing was sending email to
people that were on the same list as him.  I "do" choose to
receive Adland Digest.  That does not mean I choose to
receive Tom's publication.  (yes, I received Tom's email, too).
Harvesting Bogdan's list, or anyone's list - is wrong.

Worse than that, incidents like this make people afraid to
post to a list that they subscribe to.  Bogdan has worked to
build this list for a long, long time.  I know - I was one of the
initial subscribers "way back when".  Is it fair for a subscriber
to collect email addresses of those of us that post to the list?
No!  It's not fair to Bogdan most of all, because it destroys
the very integrity of the list he has worked so hard to build.

Think about it - Bodgan has over 22 thousand subscribers...
but how many of them post regularly? Ever wonder why?

A few people posted back to Adland Digest telling Tom that
what he did was wrong.   Peter Browne said something to the
effect that "he did not report Tom, but applauds those that did"

Then, in the last issue, Dagmar Rakos said:

>Well, I'll tell you, I am scared, deadly frightened of all those
>self-proclaimed "warriors for justice" out there who accuse first, and get
>the facts later! Witch hunts never brought anything good to this world.

Well, excuse me Dagmar, but I don't know what you've been reading
because Tom posted to the list and admitted that he has been sending
mail to people that subscribe to the same lists as him.  That pretty
much rules out "accusing first and getting facts later" doesn't it??

Dagmar goes on to say...

>Not to mention all the dumb primitive commercials on TV you never asked
>for, which interrupt you right in the middle of your favorite program...
>Never heard of any legal actions about those "spammers", did you?

Dagmar, in case you are not aware of the way the advertising
industry works, in the radio/television/newspaper world, the
advertiser pays for the ad. In the tv world, if you don't want ads,
you can watch pay per view.

Spam, on the other hand, is not paid for by the advertiser.  It's paid for
by the recipient. In areas where the recipient still has to pay by the
hour for their internet connection (there are lots of those globally) it
is not right to make the recipient pay to sit and wait while hundreds
of spam emails download.

If you think that those of us that have "unlimited" connection time
don't pay - think again.  The more spam that goes out and comes in,
the more bandwidth we all use.  When your local provider has to raise
the monthly rate for your unlimited connection, thank the spammers
for all the excess bandwidth they are using sending out all the spam
that all those millions of recipients will have to download.

I receive anywhere from 195 to 250 pieces of spam PER DAY.
I have to take the time to sort through those to make sure they are
not letters from potential clients, clients... or from my sisters or
friends, for that matter. If I was paying hourly for my connection,
I'd be furious.

The fact that some people are wrongly accused of spamming is sad.
That doesn't make sending spam acceptable.  Period.  Since Tom
already admitted to collecting names, the only "witch hunt" I see
here is Dagmar's "I hate anti-spammers" rant.

And lastly, Mr Browne asked if sending someone an email gave
them the right to add your address to their list.. to which Dagmar
replied with another question...

>Mr. Browne, and does this e-mail give you the Right to harm
>somebody - maybe - innocent?

Again, I would like to repeat that since Tom had already admitted
that he adds people to his list that subscribe to the same publications
as him, this comment is inappropriate and out of line.

Dagmar, if I was your mother, I would tell you that a public apology
to Bogdan's entire list was in order. However, I'm not your mother,
so your conduct is at the discretion of your own morals. Remember
that over 22 thousand people are watching.

In conclusion, Tom admitted his mistake, was duly chastised by the
group as a whole and the incident is done.  Period.  Well, except
the apology.  *wink*

Bogdan, my apology for the length of this letter...  despite the length,
it's much shorter than the first draft I typed.  Thanks for letting me
offer my two cents.

Linda Caroll

Your image - is my business.
P.S.  If you're new to this list, my post does not make it okay to add
my email address to your list.  Individual letters (person to person)
are more than welcome.  Spam - isn't.  : )

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From: "Robert Lee" <>
Subject: About Going Platinum

Hi Bogdan,

It's been months since I've participated in your digest, but I have been
faithfully reading every issue.
I'm married now! Hi Sheila!
Time just seems to run out and I haven't had the proper time to respond to
what has been going on with the concerns of the group.

"Going Platinum" would be illegal in my province, British Columbia, Canada,
since it appears to be a pyramid scheme. What exactly are they selling? Free
internet access? I can get that from, an established company.
(By the way, where is it and how accessible?) A community with email, fax,
local content, try an established company. (By the way, where
is it and how accessible?) A way to make money by recruiting others into
their system? Yes, definitely. Bogdan, you are on the ground floor of this,
promoting it all the same, I have to ask WHY?
The main reason I have concerns about this system is: where is the sample of
the end product? Why is it not mentioned as an end rather than a means to
the end? If everyone is pulling dollars out of the same pot, how big does
the pot have to be?
It's interesting to note that Going Platinum has no news to share with us!
Going Platinum Current Information:
Registrant: Alan Catalan (GOINGPLATINUM2-DOM
<whois?!GOINGPLATINUM2-DOM&id=0>) 526 Rutledge Avenue Lancaster, PA 17601 US
Domain Name: GOINGPLATINUM.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact,
Billing Contact: Catalan, Alan (ACJ543 <whois?!ACJ543&id=0>)
ahcatalan@AOL.COM Going Platinum, Inc. 245 Butler Avenue, 2nd Floor
Lancaster , PA 17601 717-735-0050 (FAX) 717-735-0056 Record last updated on
24-Aug-2000. Record expires on 01-Aug-2002. Record created on 01-Aug-2000.
Database last updated on 20-Nov-2000 17:18:32 EST. Domain servers in listed
order: AUTH100.NS.UU.NET <whois?host+>
AUTH110.NS.UU.NET <whois?host+>
I find it interesting that they say they are a Delaware company, but the
registered address for the domain is in Pennsylvania.

I sent an email to ahcatalan@AOL.COM, asking about the company, I hope he
responds. I'll share it with you if he does.

Robert Lee
Dating Service Directory
Vote Here For The Dating Service Of The Year!

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From: "Melanie A. Kozik" <>
Subject: About Going Platinum

Regarding *Going Platinum* - John Van said:

Frankly, after really looking into the program, I think that it is
closer to being a pyramid than any program I've ever looked into.
Since there does not seem to be any products sold, all the income
comes from joining fees. I say give it a few months and then the
justicedepartment will shut it down.
Applause applause and applesauce!  It isn't close to being a
pyramid-it IS the pyramid.

I could not agree more.  You know something like this is bound for
failure from the start.  If Anyone, anyone at ALL, can prove I am
wrong about that...I WILL eat my words.  I'll print them out and eat
them! :}  _ heck, I may even go webcam for that one! lol


Melanie A. Kozik


==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From: Dave Reno <>
Subject: About Going Platinum

Hi Bogdan,

                 I wrote a review of Going Platinum in my newsletter Your
NetRiches Marketing News. And the review wasn't very favorable to say the
least. Here is a copy of that review.

Hi Dave,
I belong to Going Platinum Could you please give me your assessment of
this program? Thank You.

P.S. If your review is not favorable, please do not
publish my name.

Good Morning,

Can anybody tell how this review is going  to go yet? ;-D

I will start off by saying I was aware of this program long before they
launched. It came highly recommended by someone I respect and have done
business with in the past. So for a couple months we received these great
'teaser' emails about how they were almost ready and it would be worth the
wait..blah the day  came that they launched and I went and took a

Let's just say I was highly disappointed....yes the site looks great and
they put allot into the design etc...but there just wasn't anything there
for me personally to get I bowed out and went on  my
merry way.

Well..since then I have been bombarded with people trying to get me to join
this program, and some of the names were some of the top marketers of
today. So that kind of gave me pause...just that I paused for a sec... *L*
Anyway then along came a request for review so... here we are.

Ok let's get going. To me the big problem lies in the compensation plan.
They have this nice little graphic on the page where they give details of
the comp plan. Dancing stars and all...'cute'...anyway you look at the mentions how as you advance through the 10 GPC positions you
earn a greater % 10% per position to be exact...hmmmmmmm so with 10
positions times 10% per level...100% is paid to you on level 10!
Anyone elses' hairs on the back of your neck stand up?

Now it gets 'better'...and these are their numbers folks, not mine...they
come right from the site! So you have now referred some people and they
have referred some people now in position 1 they say they pay out
a total of 24% of generated revenue. Position 2 pays 48% positions 3 72%
position 4 96% Position 5 pays an ASTOUNDING 120%!! How do they do that? it
gets worse..once you get to position 10 it says it pays 240%...someone
please explain to me how ANYTHING over 100% of ANYTHING is paid out? I
guess a generous benefactor is running this company and looking for a
massive tax write off! It's the only thing that even remotely comes close
to making sense.

I won't even go into the other part of this program the next level or GPAP
as they call's more of the same EXCEPT this $25 one time fee
program ends up costing you $1000 if of course you want to make the top or
'gold' level. Hey maybe this is where the money is coming from to pay out
the 240%? Who knows.

Last but not least..they're also VERY vague on what it is you actually do
to generate revenue, of course other than bringing more people in. I am
assuming they must have an ISP and or some get paid to surf or read
email programs in there somewhere. All I can tell you folks my're better off staying away from this one. But as always
this is just my opinion.

Thanks for your time. Keep those programs coming in! I don't rake EVERY
program over the coals I really don't!! *L* And as always if I really like
the program...I will join under you! ;-D

Anyway Bogdan to make matters of their top referrers who I have
worked with before..wrote the company and pasted a copy of my review and
asked them to respond. They would not return my emails by the way.

His reply was pretty scary in that he basically came out and gave the
definition of a pyramid as to WHY GP would succeed! He explained that while
sure you would be getting 240% in the highest level...not everyone else
under you would be...So...then you have to ask yourself WHY is the company
in business? How can they pay out these %'s and make a profit? They can't
in my opinion.

Last but not least...two things....this business about being 'backed' by
major corporations is nonsense. They mention MCIWorldCom...that is the
backbone the ISP service will be on...and Anderson Consulting is their Ad
agency supposedly. Big deal HOW is that backing? Second...they spent all
this time getting their act together because they wanted to be ready to go
when they launched..all they accomplished was getting the site up! Why in
over 2 months weren't they able to actually SHOW people how the revenue was
going to be generated? And actually have these programs in place?

I think I will sit on the sidelines and watch this one myself. Thank you
for your time Bogdan and everyone reading this.


Dave Reno

Presidential Founding Member of My Success Center
Leader and Trainer for Core Club and Aspire Group

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From: "Robert Lee" <>

Tom, contact about your concerns as soon as possible!
This is the only search engine where you can bid on terms and know that you
are receiving fair value for your money.
I am saying this because I have first hand knowledge of their accounting
methods. I have received refunds twice from GoTo because of people
continually and repeatedly clicking on my keyword listings. The competition
can be harsh, and even try to drain your account, but GoTo backs up your
dollars with accountability. And the refunds were provided to me before I
noticed anything wrong with the click-throughs on my keyword bids. Unlike, which continued to advertise my ads long after my account and
planned promotion ended, then they still took funds from my credit card
account for the part of the promotion that I had considered closed as
instructed, which I am waiting to recover. And they advertised my email
address to hundreds of other account holders of theirs, by including it in a
mass mailing to their advertiser base, for which I am now receiving 30 to 50
spam emails daily - with the dam yet to break once my email address starts
appearing on those "safe CD's of email addresses for marketing and promotion
" that are for sale everywhere online.
Your email address is only as safe as where  you put it.

Your promotion is only worth the effort you put into it.

Robert Lee
Dating Service Directory
Vote Here For The Dating Service Of The Year!

======================N e w P o s t i n g (1)========================
From: "Pam" <>
Subject: I have used click thru, click for hits, and ilove clicks

Thank you for the information on the paypersearch engines, the information
was very helpful. I am new to all of this and have been searching to find
what works with advertising and what does'nt. I have used click thru, click
for hits, and ilove clicks. Seems that everyone on these sites are doing the
same just clicking for credits, no one ever buys anything. Is there another
area of the internet that I still need to find where people actually buy
from your site instead of just looking? I have 2 sites right now and neither
are getting any kind of sales, what am I doing wrong? I have talked to a
couple of nice people I meet though click thru and they have the same
problem trying to find where to advertise to people who actually buy. Any
ideas? My sites are
Merchandise 2001
and Merchandise and Gift Boutique

Thank you Pam

======================N e w P o s t i n g (2)========================
From: Fred Munkachy <>
Subject: New site dedicated to new items...

Hi Bogdan (and everyone else!),

    I have recently rolled out a web site which links to only new
products and services. I thought it would be an interesting niche to
explore on the web because there really isn't much demand for this kind
of service that I can see... yet. (TV and other media really have the
corner on the market for new stuff) I have spent most of my time trying
to find  sources to "tap" for new items to link to, and let me tell you,
this has been a really tedious process. Lacking any VC at this point,
I'm doing all I can, at no cost, to fill the site up as quickly as
possible with relevant information. My question is, do I create a press
release now, before the site is "loaded up" to try to gain some
recognition, or do I continue plodding along looking for new products
and services and fill the site up... to a level of hundreds of links

Thank you all for your time and consideration,

Fred Munkachy

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===================G u e s t A r t i c l e =====================
How to write ads ?
By Vishal Rao

Hello Greg & Janet,

Writing classified ads is an art, one that can be learned,
developed and perfected in a relatively short period of

The bottom line in any ad is quite simple:

To make the reader buy the product or service. Any ad that
causes the reader to only pause in his thinking, to just
admire the product, or to simply believe what is written
about the product--is not doing it's job completely.

Any ad that does not elicit the desired action is an
absolute waste of time and money.

In order to elicit the desired action from the prospect, all
ads are written according to a simple "master formula" which

      1) Attract the ATTENTION of your prospect
      2) INTEREST your prospect in the product
      3) Cause your prospect to DESIRE the product
      4) Demand ACTION from the prospect

Never forget the basic rule of advertising copywriting; If
the ad is not read, it won't stimulate any sales, if it is
not seen, it cannot be read; and if it does not command or
grab the attention of the reader, it will not be seen!

The following simple exercise will help you to write
some great classified ads... without spending a penny!

Select ten classified ads from ten different mail order type
publications or ezines--ads that you think are pretty good.

Analyze each of these ads; How has the writer attracted your
attention--what is it about the ad that keeps your
interest--are you stimulated to want to know more about the
product being advertised--and finally, what action must you
take? Are all of these points covered in the ad? How
strongly are you "turned on" by each of these ads?

Rate these ads on a scale form one to ten, with ten being
the best. Every ad you see from now on, quickly analyze it,
and rate it somewhere on your scale. If you'll practice this
exercise on a regular basis, you'll soon be able to quickly
recognize the "Power Points" of any ad you see, and know
within your own mind whether an ad is good, bad, or
otherwise, and what makes it so.

Practice for an hour each day, write the ads you've rated 8,
9, and 10 exactly as they have been written. This will give
you the "feel" of the fundamentals and style necessary in
writing classified ads.

Your next project will be to pick out what you consider to
be the ten 'worst' ads you can find in the classified

Read these ads over a couple of times, and then beside each
of them, write a short comment why you think it is bad; Lost
in the crowd, doesn't attract attention--doesn't hold the
readers interest--nothing special to make the reader want to
own the product--no demand for action.

You probably already know what is coming next, and that is
right. Break out those pencils, erasers and scratch paper--
and start rewriting these ads to include the missing

Each day for the next month, practice writing the ten best
ads for an hour, just the way the were originally written.
Pick out the ten worst ads, analyze those ads, and then
practice rewriting those until they measure up to doing the
job they were intended to do.

Once you're satisfied that the ads you've rewritten are
perfect, go back into each ad and cross out the words that
can be eliminated without detracting from the ad. Classified
ads are almost always "finalized" in the style of a

CLASSIFIED AD: (Before finalizing)
Save on your food bills! Reduced prices on every shelf in
the store! Stock up now while supplies are complete! Come in
today, Jerrys' Family Supermarket!

CLASSIFIED AD: (After finalizing)
Save on Food! Everything bargain priced! Limited supplies!
Hurry! Jerry's Markets!

It takes dedicated and regular practice, but you can do it.
Simply recognize and understand the basic formula--practice
reading and writing the good ones--and rewriting the bad
ones to make them better. Practice, and keep at it, over and
over, every day--until the formula, the idea, and the feel
of this kind of ad writing becomes second nature to you.
This is the ONLY WAY to gain expertise writing good
classified ads.


The headline is the ad for the ad!

Allen Says, the creator of "Internet Marketing Warriors"
wrote the following headline...

"SEX sites aren't the only ones that make money!"

He says this ONE headline has added $50,000 a year to his

Devote 75% of your time writing an ad to headlines.

The truth is, nobody is going to see your ad unless you can
"grab" their attention and entice them to read all of what
your have to say. Your headline, or lead sentence when no
headline is used, has to make it MORE DIFFICULT for your
prospect to ignore, or pass over, than to stop and read your
ad. If you don't capture the attention of your reader with
your headline, anything beyond is useless effort and wasted

Here are some proven eye-catchers to begin your headlines...

FREE report shows you how...
AMAZING marketing system will EXPLODE...
Why this ad could change your life...
What turns you on? SEX? or daily cash?
This FREE report changed my life!
Why THIS CLICK could be the most important...
How to turn your pc into a PROFIT MACHINE!
FINALLY! A breakthru in Internet marketing
At last! You can fire your boss!
Are you making these 3 FATAL MARKETING MISTAKES?
Are you making daily cash?
DISCOVER the 3 steps to...
Take control of your life NOW!


You SHOULD track each and every ad you post.. otherwise
you'll never know which ads are profitable and which ones
are not. If you see that the ads are not pulling enough
response... tweak them.

If you are using an autoresponder address in you ad, you
will be notified EVERY TIME someone retrieves your autobot.
You can use this notification as a tracking device.

For example... If your autobot address is
and your ad tracking code is "TE1", then in your ad, you
would write something like this => "For more details click
here: or send a blank
e-mail to with TE1 in subject field"

By adding "mailto:" before the e-mail address, you have
converted it into a "Hotlink". When you create a Hotlink,
the user does not have to open his e-mail client to send an
e-mail. Just clicking on the Hotlink would open his e-mail
client, with "TW1" in the subject field!

Similarly you can convert a web address in to a hot link by
adding http:// before the web address. For example is a hot link.

If you are using a web address in your ad, you can use a hit
counter like Sitemeter ( to track
your ads. It's FREE!.

Now you would rewrite the above ad as follows => "For more
details rush to:"

There is a feature in Sitemeter wherein you can find out the
entry pages of your visitors. So if you find in the logs of "Entry pages",
you know that someone has clicked your ad!

Change one component at a time. For example change the
headline first. Track the results. Change a word or two in
the body... track the results... so on... Sometimes simply
changing the CASE of some of the words in the headline will
SIGNIFICANTLY change the ads response.

Once you have created a KILLER ad, post it all over the
NET... and book your celebration cruise!

To your success,

Vishal Rao


P.S. Also read this excellent 5-day course by Ken of Make
Your Site Sell! on becoming an effective e-persuader. Send
a blank e-mail to to receive your

======================Joke of the Day=====================

An applicant was filling out a job application.  When he came
to the question, "Have you ever been arrested?" he wrote,

The next question, intended for people who had answered in
the affirmative to the previous question, was "Why?"

The applicant answered it anyway: "Never got caught."

Let's hear from you......

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