A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of   22,250 subscribers
                    on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                         Vol. 1, #208  Nov 27, 2000

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Topics in this issue:

         Sponsor Message
         Word from Publisher

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (4)

1.About Going Platinum
~ John Geary
~ Steven Pronger
~ Craig R Vecellio

2. In response to SPAM issue
~ Audra Gehrke
~ Ken Werner
~ Linda Caroll
~ Peter G. Browne
~ David A. Weed

3.When to send out a press release about new site?
~ Tony Murtagh

4.Thanks for help and more questions
~ Judith Tramayne-Barth

N e w     P o s t s   (1)
1. Dee & Jeff Price
~ International Shipping/Promotions on website

Site Review Requests (1)

G u e s t   A r t i c l e (0)

Joke of the Day (1)

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome  122   new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.


Linda Caroll  writes in her message.
Full text in the "spam" section.

Yet, it's happened again. The very day after I posted to Adland,
I was spammed by a subscriber  named Mike Canon.

So, Mike harvested Bogdan's list, spammed and lied. Are those
the ethics you want to show the world, Mike?

To Mike Canon, and other people who pull this stunt, would
you please ask yourself these questions...

1) What gives YOU the right to destroy the integrity of Bogdan's
list, or anyone's list, by collecting addresses of the posters?

Linda brought up the issue of  this list's integrity due to unscrupulous
spammers who are trying to earn their own business hiding
behind the Adland name.

I have noticed that contribution to digest  from experienced
marketers and business owners, decreased considerably
over the  last half of the  year and I was looking for causes of it.
Now it is clear to me that one of the major reasons is
the fact that  after each issue some  semi-clever entrepreneur
is sending letters claiming that they are part of the same list
or such.

To eliminate this problem entirely from the Adland Digest, I have
decided not to include email addresses as usual in the
"from"  part of the  posting. I will only post email address
if is included in the signature or the body of the message.
This should do it. Hopefully few of those who subscribed
here to harvest email addresses, will remove themselves
after period of time and I will try to introduce standard
form of mailing list again.

I'm also making changes to AdlandPro classifieds for
the past weeks and it might take me another two or three
weeks. These changes will totally eliminate  possibility
of harvesting of  email addresses from classifieds directly.
(Option of hiding email address is available right
now but not everybody is taking advantage of it)
I'm also adding  several new features to Adland Pro
Classifieds which should be of interest to serious
business owners in terms of effective and affordable
promotion. Details  on that later.

John Lundgren writes

I enjoy reading about success stories on the net. Could you publish
them more often?


As you know those success stories are being published here when
they are submitted. There used to be more success stories submitted
to Adland Digest when list was smaller. My assumption is that
the larger the list, the harder it is to share success as there
are more people who look at it and not everybody feels comfortable
with sharing their personal experiences with large group of
unknown subscribers.


Again call for more success stories.
I run out of my supplies and expect to receive some more from you,
before next issue goes out.
You did great job so far.

If you think,  you have an interesting success story to tell, please send
it to digest as usual and indicate as such.
At the end of year I will create web page and will invite everybody
to vote for the "Success Story Of The Year"
Best voted story will receive one FREE year of advertising
in the form of  small button at the bottom of each AdlandPro page.
AdlandPro  receives  600,000 page viewings , 150,000 unique
visitors  each month.

To be eligible for the prize, this story has to be from your own

See existing success stories here


Internet Marketing Update, a newsletter and Direct Email
Business, a marketing opt-in list, published by NetMark
Communications, now have their own URL:  Make a visit and when you join either
or both, receive a free ad in DEB.


================== Moderate Success Story=====================
From: "Andy Sparks"

Hi Bogdan,

Thanks for the personal attention in the last few months.  I am a little shy
about sending this for a success story, because it is not that impressive,
but I have come a long way and have a long way to go, but I now have a
little momentum.

I sent you an email a few months ago when I was ranked about 5,300 out of
about 6,200 affiliates of adland pro, asking for some help.  I am ranked for
November 164 out of about 6,300 affiliates.

The main program that I am promoting is One World Online a publicly traded
Internet company, that rewards its members with rebates for using the
services and shopping with their affiliates.  That web site has received 100 or more visitors on
two separate days this month.  That sounds like small potatoes, but when you
go from all most zero to two days over 100 it feels pretty good.

I am also heavily promoting Going Platinum  There has been a lot of
discussion about that program in the Digest and I respect all of their
opinions.  I am going to continue to promote and try to generate some of
that spillover, people keep talking about.  If it shuts down tomorrow, I am
out $25 and some free ads.  I can accept that level of risk.

I wanted to share with the digest how I generated the traffic for adland and
One World Online.  I have been using a free submission program

I start it up before I go to bed and while I am getting ready in the
morning.  If I have a few minutes between appointments during the day, I run
another.  You can save 5 profiles in the free section and this service will
submit to ffas, free classifieds and the regular search engines.  You have
to be careful, because it would be easy to spam the search engines by
submitting more than once a month.  You need a alternate email for the
confirmation messages, but that is not a problem.

The service is submitting for me while I am typing this email.

Thanks again for your help and keep the digest coming.

Andy Sparks

respond to

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:John Geary
Subject: About Going Platinum

Dear Bogdan:

I have been a subscriber for several months and enjoy your e-zine.  I
normally do not post but I would like to reply to the three posts in the
11/21/00 issue.  I have been a Going Platinum affiliate for about three

Ms. Kozik and Mr. Lee expressed strong beliefs that GP is a pyramid scheme,
mainly because GP is not selling a product.  Mr. Reno's chief criticism
seemed to be that the compensation percentages exceed 100% and are therefore
impossible to meet.

At the risk of being accused of describing the emperor's new clothes, I
think they are wrong.  The GPAP, the Going Platinum Affiliate Program, is
only open to members of the GPC, the Going Platinum Community.  Yes, most
people join simultaneously; but one cannot be a member of the GPAP without
first being a member of the GPC.  BUT, one can be a member of the GPC [which
is free] without being a member of the GPAP.  This distinction is important.
Why?  Because GPAP is not selling a product to the general public.  The
purpose of the GPAP is to provide an incentive to bring new members into the
community by offering the ability to earn increased percentages respecting
the compensation one can earn in the GPC.

One can earn up to 100% of the revenues that one generates by one's own
internet activity from within the on-line community.  It is not deleterious
for Going Platinum to pay 100% of the revenues that any person has
generated. To get to the position to have earned 100% of self-produced
revenues, a person has to be directly or indirectly responsible for bringing
a minimum of 390 members into the community.  In reality, the number will
likely be 1,000 or more, and probably many more.

The GPC also pays one for direct and indirect referrals to four levels.
While the literature within the GP web-site claims that one earns 14% with
one position and can earn up to 140%, anyone who isn't simply looking for a
reason to complain has to realize that this claim is PUFF.  One receives 5%
for direct referrals, 4% for first level indirects, 3% for second level
indirects, and 2% for third level indirects.  Those numbers add to 14:
5+4+3+2.  But one will not be receiving 14% of the revenues generated by the
members in the first four levels of one's GPC.  If, for illustration, one
had an equal number of referrals in each level, one would actually be
receiving 3.5% of the total revenues generated by one's downline.

The 14% actually represents the total for each level that gets
paid out per share in the community, not counting the 10% that each
individual earns per share in the GPC.  My 'directs' at 5% are my sponsor's
first level 'indirects' at 4% and his or her sponsor's second level
'indirects' at 3% and his or her sponsor's third level 'indirects' at 2%.
Thus, the total pay-out per "share" for referrals is 14%.  That's hardly a
pay-out that will prejudice GP's ability to maintain.

If one has earned the maximum 10 shares in the GPC [based on activity within
the GPAP] one receives 100% of the revenues from his or her own activity,
50%, 40%, 30% and 20% of the respective revenues for his or her first,
second, third and fourth levels of referrals in the GPC.  Thus, Going
Platinum will have sufficient monies with which to pay the proposed

All this presupposes that the Going Platinum Community will be brought
on-line.  It's now scheduled for a 1/15/2001 launch date.  If GP fails to
launch the GPC, then the GPAP will be a pyramid.

Viewed objectively, something that many people simply cannot do with ANY
program that pays generational overrides, Going Platinum will give the
average netizen an opportunity not only to have free access to the internet
without having to use a viewbar and free access to a content-rich community,
but also an opportunity to make some money on the internet.

Since the most it ever costs "out of pocket" is $25 USD, rather than holding
the perspective, "What if it doesn't work?", I prefer to hold, "What if it
DOES work?"  If it does, I plan to have fun with it and make some money and
help others make money.

John Geary,

respond to

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From: "Steven Pronger"
Subject: About Going Platinum

Hi Bogdan,

Re the discussion on Going Platinum. Thought your readers might mind this
it's a posting by the CEO of GP on their Bulletin Board.


The GPAP is the vehicle by which you purchase shares of GPC
ownership. If your membership fees are based on 1 Org/Pos you
are purchasing 10% GPC ownership. If your membership fees are
based on 10 Orgs/Pos you are purchasing 100% GPC ownership.
Ex. If you purchased 10% of your local grocery store you would
entitled to 10% of the net revenues generated by that store. The
GPAP is just a system that allows for the purchase of additional
ownership shares in the GPC (the GPAP is kind of like a business
broker for the GPC). The money that you earn from your referrals
in the GPAP is separate, distinct, and simply a "thank you" for
helping GP to build our membership base. It is not different
than the "thank you" that companies like,
Toys R US, and many others offer through their affiliate
programs. It is not and should never be considered the primary
way in which you earn money through GP. IT IS JUST AN AFFILIATE

As far as the missing "product" goes, well...

The primary product is your ownership stake in the GPC - as
mentioned above. In this early stage it is obvious that the GPC
is not launched yet. That does not prohibit anyone from
purchasing their ownership stake now if they so elect just as it
does not prohibit those who elect to wait (until the GPC is
launched) from taking advantage of a free membership. It is no
different than paying for a house that you are having built (1st
the deposit, then the monthly or quarterly instalments, then
eventually you get the house), or paying for merchandise at a
store on layaway (pay a little this week, pay a little
next week), or purchasing stock in an IPO that has not gone
public yet, or prepaying for a vacation that you will take in 6
months, or investing heavily in your own bicycle shop that will
open in 4 months, etc.

Additionally, we do offer other secondary products. This
Bulletin Board and the Members Area itself is a product,
Platinum Office and Platinum Responder (although we are still
working out kinks) both provide services that cost far more than
a one-time $25 fee if purchased through other venues on the
Internet. Some of you would take advantage of this one-time fee
for these secondary products and some of you might not.
Nonetheless they are products and we do not
overcharge for them as do most "pyramid" type operations.

In regard to the "pyramid" claims - The GP Organization was not
designed to be built from top down. A member that joins this
instant can be placed on level 44 while a member who joins 10
minutes from now can be placed on level 6 in the overall company
matrix. In fact, the member on level 44 can very conceivably
make more than the member on level 6 now and forever. Each
organization is built individually without regard for when
you joined and where you are placed. Of course the GP corporate
referral placement algorithm weights senior members a little
more heavily but it also takes into account the need of the

As far as running out of future GP members is concerned: There
are currently approximately 150 Million Internet users in North
America alone. That total is currently growing at a rate of 50%
per year so next year at this time you can expect to find 225
Million Internet users in North America alone. - Just to put it
all in perspective, AOL (the largest ISP in North America)
currently enjoys approx 21 - 26 Million subscribers. Even they
have a lot of growing to do.

Steve Pronger

Your Home Business

respond to

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============
From: Libby
Subject: About Going Platinum


I had this message passed on to me from another ezine editor, who seems to
have only my best interests at heart. I think that he is lovely for
worrying, but I read the comments, and didn't like what I read.

I just thought I'd have my say.

There are many pro's and con's with Going Platinum. personally, I think it's
a great idea. But then, none of us will ever know ALL the facts.
In the letters below, all I've seen is several people having a look at the
GP site, and judging what they see.
GP is not fully operational yet. It states this all over the place, and Alan
himself has said there are still many things to come, and that situation
probably won't change. It will be a continuous growth, as far as I can see.


I have been associated with "pyramids" of all shapes and sizes. Every
"associate" program on the net is a pyramid. They all have the structure
that proves it, you make money by introducing NEW affiliates, they have
products, but nothing you can't get anywhere else on the net, you have
upline and downline, though not always called that. It doesn't matter how
you change the words, the structure still exists. THE HIGHER YOU ARE, THE
MORE YOU BENEFIT!! Many of you build opt-in databases this way.

People, if we want to get "nitty gritty" here, ALL business is pyramidical.
The top man makes more money than the bottom man, and often because he has a
lot more employees under him, therefore more responsibility. But he can only
get there by working his way up through the levels. And it's because of the
work his "underlings" do that he benefits. He couldn't do it without them.

AMWAY could be called pyramidical, and has been called that by many. The
main things that save it , in definition terms, are that the bottom person
can climb higher than the person who got in 5 levels above him, if he works
hard enough, sponsoring other people in. And they have an excellent range of
products. GP is the same. If someone joins for FREE, refers me in, and I pay
my $25, I am automatically higher in the group than he is. How is that

Going Platinum will succeed, despite all the "rubbish kickers" for want of a
more precise term, because the people behind it are determined. TAKE NOTE, I
don't know any of them. I'm one of the "little" people, so I have no reason
to back these people, other than I think GP is a WINNER!!

GP is FREE to enter. The $25 is only to be short lived. Once the ISP is up
and running, sometime in January we're told, the income will be made from
users of the products and services that are and will be available. As WE ALL
KNOW, any time you click you're mouse on the internet, someone is making
money. There are advertisers everywhere, paid to surf, pay to use email, pay
to receive email, blast sites that let you use them as long as you click
occasionally on the sponsors banners.Thousands of them.

GP will have, and already do have, these things. The site you see, we're
told, will not be the end site. It is simply a starting point. Every
business on this internet had to start somewhere, building up clients,
customers, users. GP are assuring they will have the flow once they are up,
by building now, before they are fully operational.

To you people who have faith in this new identity, hang in there guys. The
money will flow. The community WILL grow.

And to all who think we're fools, WHY? Most of the people now in GP paid
nothing, zilch, zero, to be in it. It has cost nothing, therefore they have
lost nothing. Those of us who have paid our $25, which, by the way, was OUR
choice, are already reaping the rewards. I'm not out of pocket, and neither
are the hundreds of others who have already received cheques of $100 and

Have a look, and I mean a GOOD LOOK at the site as it stands. There are
products all over it. Go and read a few postings on the message boards. They
are an incredible eye opener.

Alan probably won't reply to your negative emails, because time will be the
proof either way. Why take the time to answer "downers" when he has massive
amounts of work to be done elsewhere. And to you fence sitters, ever had one
of those " I wish I had" moments. You will again too!

I thank all with my best interests at heart, but I'll be sticking with GP,
because I believe it will work.



respond to

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============
From: Craig R Vecellio
Subject: About Going Platinum

    Some of your readers are not understanding the program . Namely, those
who call it a pyramid with no money generated except by referrals.  The bulk
of the money is going to be generated by internet usage. Everything a user
does online makes money for someone. Going Platinum returns a portion of
that money to you.  Yes, that money is based on your downline, but member
fees are not the only source of money.  As for the question "What are they
selling?", the answer is the same thing every ISP is selling-advertising and
similar things that make money for the provider when you use the service.
The main difference is that GP pays you a potion of those profits instead of
charging you for the service, or making you watch a million pop-up ads.
Also, a pyramid would not let you join for free and make money.
    Regarding Dave Reno's figures, those assume you have 10 positions.  To
get an accurate figure, first divide your figures by 10 to give you a total
per leg. Then divide it up per level as outlined in the program.  This is
the result:
Level 1 (you): 10% of the revenue based on your usage per leg. If you have
10 legs, you get 100%
Level 2: 5% of the revenue based on your usage per referral. If you have 10
legs, you get 50%
Level 3: 4% per referral based on your usage.  If you have 10 legs, you get
Level 4: 3% per referral based on your usage. If you have 10 legs, you get
Level 5: 2% per referral based on your usage. If you have 10 legs, you get
Thus,. if you have 10 legs, you can get 240% of the revenue generated by
YOUR usage. If you have 1 leg straight down, you get 24% of the revenue
generated by your usage. With 5 people involved (1 each in levels 1-5),
collectively generating 500%, that is easily payable.
    The 240% figure can vary depending on  how your downline is organized.
Nobody makes anything if nobody does anything online. Also, if you make no
money, you are not charged to use the MLM aspect of the program. I can
testify to that personally.  My wife and I each have an account. So far,
mine is going nowhere, and I've been charged nothing.  My wife's
organization has made well above the amount put in.

If anyone is concerned about this being a scam, I suggest signing up for
free.  It's a legitimate concern, as there is no shortage of internet scams,
but you can't lose getting in for free.  I'll let you know when the program
is fully functional, with the ISP set up.

Sincerely, Craig Vecellio

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From: Audra Gehrke
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Hi Bogdan and Reader's,

Well, I wasn't going to get in on the spam discussion but I just
have to give my two cents on this one:).

I've read everything that you all posted about spam these past issue's,
and I agree on every one's two cents worth. I'm sure everyone that
is online gets spam. I've been online for two years now and I
get bombarded with e-mails from allot of spammer's everyday.
Yes my delete button gets worn out but I don't want to be the
one responsible for shutting someone down who might be
innocent. I know everything that I've worked for would be
gone if someone shouted spam on me. I Never send UCE!!
It's not worth it and besides that the one's that are spamming
aren't getting nowhere with their business or whatever it is
they think is important enough to spam people.

That would be like buying them cd's online that advertise
over 3,000,000 email addresses. Do you really think these
people would buy from you? What a waste of money.

Instead of spamming or buying cd's with email addresses,
why don't people join safe emailing lists. These are one of
the best ways to get your ads out and you don't have to
worry about being accused of spam. I mean let's face it,
e-mail is the way to get your ad right in front of people.
So if your going to be a online marketer, do it right the
first time and you will have nothing to worry about.

To all of your success:)

Thank you,
Audra Gehrke

Ecommerce Resources
If you would like more information about safe
emailing lists, please send a blank email to

respond to

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From: Ken Werner
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Hi Bogdan and Fellow Adlanders:

First of all, Bogdan, let me thank you for including the short insert about
the Golden Web Award some months ago: as you can see by my signature (which
you do not need to publish), I have been successful!  And very proud!  Thank

Now, I have a few thoughts concerning our ongoing discussion of spammers I
would like to share with my fellow readers.

To date, I have not been accused of spamming: I include a signature with
every email I send, and I never harvest an email address, even from a
friend's multiple email.  To be falsely accused of spamming is unfortunate,
and those so accused have my sympathy.

Those who intentionally spam are the recipient of the following thoughts.

When I started my website at the beginning of the year, it was only going to
be a brief, one-concept site.  It has grown into a full-time hobby,
unfortunately without being financially successful (yet!).  On some of my
redirects I have used one of my email accounts, and it seems that quite
possibly that address is being harvested by unscrupulous, unethical
"personages" in order to send me whatever garbage those individuals feel I
need: everything from building materials (I live in an apartment!) to
sex-related "products."

What these spammers did not realize is that I made a commitment to myself in
October that instead of just deleting all spam, I would vigorously pursue
legal action against the more virulent of those who would spew their trash
in my direction.

One such spammer now has a blemish with the Better Business Bureau: the case
is still pending and I will keep you informed of any possible resolution.
In addition, I have decided that if these "personages" want to consume my
time, then they must reimburse me for it: it is, after all, fair.  I don't
work for free unless I so choose to volunteer my time.  That company now has
an outstanding invoice for $100 assessed against them: it's a minimal charge
because that company did not try to "cover their tracks": indeed, they were
easy to trace.  I will continue my efforts to collect my invoice, including
filing suit against the company for failure to pay.  Indeed, in the long
run, I can obtain a sister-state judgment against them and have the Sheriff
of Love County, Texas, confiscate their property to pay the debt, including
court costs and any other costs a court deems just and proper.

I believe this is what we must all do: as Linda Carroll pointed out in the
last newsletter, currently we all pay for spammers' garbage through more
costly Internet charges because of the higher consumption of bandwidth by
those who have no ethics.  If you're spammed, track down the company or
individual: decide how much your time is worth and document your efforts.
Then, using another email account or snail-mail, invoice that company or
individual.  If it is a legitimate company, file a complaint with the Better
Business Bureau: perhaps an unsightly blemish will discourage the company to
continue to fill your email with their garbage: so far the aforementioned
company hasn't sent me anything else!

I wish success to you all, and Happy Thanksgiving!

Ken Werner

San Francisco

respond to

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From: Linda Caroll
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Dear Bogdan and Adland Subscribers:

In Issues 205-207 of Adland Digest there was a hearty thread
in regard to a subscriber (Tom) that  had harvested names out
of Adland Digest. Bogdan posted and  told people that doing this
is wrong.  It makes subscribers NOT want to post to Adland.

Yet, it's happened again. The very day after I posted to Adland,
I was spammed by a subscriber  named Mike Canon. Here is
a snippet from the spam I received..

>I got your email address from where you had posted a free
>classified ad.  The nature of your ad leads me to believe you ...
(snipped because I don't promote spammers websites)
>Thanks for your time.
>Mike Canon

Mike "claims" he got my email address from Adland Classifieds.
WRONG.  I don't have an ad in the classifieds.

So, Mike harvested Bogdan's list, spammed and lied. Are those
the ethics you want to show the world, Mike?

To Mike Canon, and other people who pull this stunt, would
you please ask yourself these questions...

1) What gives YOU the right to destroy the integrity of Bogdan's
list, or anyone's list, by collecting addresses of the posters?

2) What makes you think that anyone wants to do business
with someone whose ethics are already questionable.

3)  When you are finally shut down for good, who are you
going to blame? I sure hope it's the guy in the mirror.

Bogdan has worked hard to build this list.  If we all want to
benefit from the interaction and exposure it offers, people
must STOP ABUSING IT or it will die.

Post to the list.  Talk to people.  Act like a respectable human
being, for heaven's sakes. You will get your name "out there"
and in an ethical and respectable fashion.

Stop stealing Bogdan's integrity and abusing members
because that IS what you're doing if you collect names of people
that post to the list. It's dishonest and downright stupid.

I hope that we, as a group, can band together to deal with
people like Mike so this list can thrive and grow.  If you're not
part of the solution, you just might be part of the problem.

Linda Caroll

Your image - is my business.

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==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.4)=============
From: "Peter G. Browne"
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Hello Bogdan,
The following is directly related to the current issue of SPAM that is being
discussed in Adlands and i apologize for the length of this but feel it is
Today when I checked my e-mail I had the following waiting for me in it.


I got your email address from where you had posted a free
classified ad. The nature of your ad leads me to believe you would be
interested in making substantial income and would be willing to put forth
the effort to attain extreme wealth.
.............I removed the ad as I don't want to provide free advertising
with this.
Thanks for your time.
Mike Canon

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I don't have an ad
currently running in the classifieds I even went and looked just to be sure.
Also if I did have an ad running the e-mail address in the ad would be
specific for that ad and would come into my catchall e-mail address.
I am willing to bet that everyone that had an e-mail address in the
last issue of Adlands got this exact same e-mail. This is a classic example
of the type of person that I am talking about. Just like Tom he was to lazy
to do any real work and feels that he can SPAM me and every other
person that tries to make Adlands work by posting in it. Perhaps the only
way to stop this sort of thing is to stop posting, but that's not fair to
the people that are looking for genuine help in creating and maintaining
an on-line business.
I say cancel this persons subscription, shut them down at the source( their
ISP). I did a little checking, as I always do prior to reporting a
SPAMMER and everyone might find this of interest as well as educating.

Note from Moderator.
Peter included here his analysis regarding spammer header and the fact that
this user is investigated  for spam already. I removed  this portion
because of its technicality and length.
I'm sure that the point Peter is trying to make won't be diminished by
this alteration.

When you read the above please note all the ip not found and discarded as
fake. Also please note that his host had already taken action on him and
NOV 16th or there about and yet on the 22nd he was back on-line with
the same host and spamming everyone from Adlands.
So in closing, shutting down a SPAMMER such as Mike Canon is not a witch
hunt or an "ism" of any sort, it is a service and courtesy to everyone else
out there.

What people need to understand is that  I could have just hit delete, but in
doing so would I be helping or hurting. It would not help the people that
post or read Adlands, it would not help Bogdan or the credibility of his
publication So if you stop right there that's 2 to 1 in favour of taking
action against this sort of practice. If you received the e-mail in question
and hit delete did you help this on-line community or did you add to it's
possible downfall. If everyone that received this e-mail form Mike Canon
suddenly decided to stop posting in Adlands or other publications would
we be helping to make these communities work?  Some people choose to
refer to SPAM reporting in a negative manner but it takes a serious effort
to report a suspected SPAMMER and it also take time.

This isn't like crying wolf this is more like shouting torpedo in the water,
something you really don't ever want to hear. If we, as the members and
users of these various on-line communities do not set the rules and
guidelines, then who do we want to set them. The Government? If so
which government the U.S., Canada, Nato, The United Nations.. pick
a country of your liking. It is up to us, as members of the Internet society,
to set down guidelines for ourselves, as, I for one do not want one Nation
to set the rules for us all. Maybe if we let the state of Florida vote on it?

Just felt that we needed a touch of humor, I don't want to offend any one
from Florida, it was a joke :)

Well that's my two cents worth and as usual, only my opinion, everyone is
entitled to one and this is mine and yes the words SPAM & SPAMMER
are in all upper case. It is a serious issue.

Peter G. Browne

We make InterNETworking work for YOU
Website Hosting With More Than Just Bells & Whistles
Visit Us On-Line at >

respond to

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.5)=============
From: "David A. Weed"
Subject: In response to SPAM issue

Dear Bogdan and fellow subscribers:

As an Internet entrepreneur I take this issue very seriously. I have never
posted to this forum before, but feel that a couple of points need to be
clarified. I am not excusing what Tom did. In fact, if his actions are as
stated he did abuse his membership in this list. Likewise, those who
reported him were correct in doing so.
However, much of the ensuing discussion on this topic has been riddled with
misconception and unsubstantiated rumor. I am not going to name names as my
intent is not to flame anyone, which brings me to my first point. Everyone
that posted questioning "anti-spammer" posts was practically accused of
spamming themselves! And while I can relate to the "outraged" spam
recipients, Sometimes they seem to forget that *everyone* still has basic
human rights. It is clear that most "anti-spammers" have a decidedly
sub-human opinion regarding "spammers".
One of the arguments presented concerned TV ads. As I understand it the
"anti-spam" crowd does not consider TV ads spam because the Advertiser pays
a lot of money for the ad and they "the recipient" pays *nothing* to receive
them, while the reverse is true for UCE or spam.
What a load of (insert appropriate expletive here)!
I wonder how many "anti-spammers" have cable TV or Satellite TV! Last time I
checked you are paying for those services. And, comparing time/fees ratios,
significantly more than you pay to access the `net! There are services that
provide *Global*  `net access for free! Yet you continue to trot that out as
excuse #1 for your war on spam. Oh, and that part about spam being free to
the sender? Often these people have *purchased* the list they are sending
to...set up a web
materials...and may even be providing someone with employment to handle the
expected sales! I will agree that it is cheaper than 3rd class mailing or TV
or radio or any other format you wish to compare it to. But claiming it is
free is ridiculous.
What has become clear in the years I have been studying this phenomenon is
that the real war on spam isn't about "unwanted email", it is about unwanted
commerce. The majority of the vigilante style anti-spammers, if you really
get down to it are vehemently opposed to capitalism of any kind.
A long time ago, when the `net was just the domain of the connected colleges
and universities, most of the arguments against spam made sense. Opposing it
under the then existing limitations of bandwidth was necessary.
Happily those limitations no longer exist. In the modern age bandwidth is
expanding exponentially.
Do we then need to ignore spam? NO! True abuse must be dealt with. There are
acceptable ways and methods of sending email to potential customers. Already
the big boys are exploring Internet promotion. Do you really think that
General Electric or Microsoft or AT&T aren't going to send out UCE? And that
you will get their ISP to "boot" them when you report their spam?
The best thing we can do is educate Internet users in how to send and
respond to UCE. Like 3rd class mail and TV ads and movie theatre ads (pay $7
to sit in a chair and watch ads for twenty minutes!) it will always be


David A. Weed

respond to

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From: Tony Murtagh
Subject: When to send out a press release about new site

Hi Bogdan

I would just like to comment on Fred's question about when to send out a
press release on his new site.

I believe the time to start marketing the site is when he is happy that the
site has something to offer the visitor.

If he puts together a good marketing/pr campaign that attracts lots of
visitors to his site before it is ready, not only will he have wasted his
time, but he will have lost potential customers. If someone visits a site
and there is not much there, they will not return.

The site does not have to have the number of links in he is aiming for, but
it does have to have enough there to keep a visitor's interest and not look
half completed,

Telling visitors that there is still  more to come and collecting their
email addresses so he can mail them with new developments could be a good
way of starting a profitable opt-in mailing list.

Finally, I have every sympathy with him in having no VC - I and many other
people running successful web sites are in the same position - one just has
to replace capital with that other equally valuable asset - time!

Best wishes

Tony Murtagh

publisher of the weekly marketing ezine,
Aardvark Marketing & Development.
To subscribe

respond to

==========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
>From : Judith Tramayne-Barth
Subject: Thanks for help and more questions

Marty Mitchell wrote

I'm still looking for an affordable merchant account/shopping
cart so that I can accept credit cards and make it easier to place an order.
I'm still using PayPal for all credit card payments.  It works pretty good,
but I know I could be doing better with a more legit credit card acceptance
method and shopping cart.


If you have a "tangible" product, you should go take a look at .  They are a secure server which accepts
credit cards, no upfront fees and charge a 9% fee (8% during
November & December) and pay semi-monthly.  Their system is easy
to set up and integrate into your web pages and you have a choice
to receive payments by check or direct deposit.  Their payments
are always on time.

Also, your customer wants to click on a "purchase now" link and
immediately enter their credit card information.  If they have to
do something extra (i.e., print a form, fill it our and send or
go over to and set up an account), you will probably
lose their business.

Hope this helps,

Judith Tramayne-Barth

If you knit or crochet, you have
to see this new yarn holder at
Murder Mystery Novel at

respond to

======================N e w P o s t i n g (1)========================
From: Dee & Jeff Price
Subject: International Shipping/Promotions on website

Hello everyone!  I have 2 quick questions (LOL on the quick) -  !)  Does
anyone have any advice on how I can ship internationally?  I am based in
Ohio and my supplier is in California and I can drop ship from the
supplier to my customer but my supplier will not ship anywhere but in
the continental US - any suggestions?  The other question is - is it
better to offer 1) free shipping on orders over $14.95, 2) Forget the
free shipping and cut my prices, 3) Forget both free shipping and price
cuts and offer a free gift?  What has worked for you?  you can contact
me at or reply here.  I am in the process of changing
my website so here's both addys -

- Thanks!!!!

Dee Price
J&D's Giftworld

respond to

=============Site Review Request(1)===============
From: Jeff Foster <>

Hello Adlanders!
    I've been reading the posts and see that I'm not
the only one not getting the sales I need. I've been
using Click-thru and pay-per-click search engines.
I've also managed to get listed in some major search
engines including Yahoo. I invite my fellow webmasters
to visit my site and give your comments and criticism
to help me find sales. The address is
     I thank you for all the interesting articles
published in Adland.
               Jeff Foster

Click this link to visit my website!
Your source for power tools, auto parts, accessories, and electronics.

======================Joke of the Day=====================

An older couple wake up in the morning and the husband
looks over at the woman and says, " Wow! You wouldn't
believe the dream I had..."

And the woman replied, "Yes, go on tell me."

So the husband told her.  "I had a dream that you left me after
20 years of being married."

So the wife says, "Oh, it sounds more like a nightmare."

The husband says, "No, I am sure it was a dream."

Let's hear from you......

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