Vol1, Issue 231 Feb 25, 2001

                              ADLANDS'   DIGEST
                     A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of 23,514 subscribers
                     on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                       at http://www.adlandpro.com
                        Bogdan Fiedur, Publisher
                       mailto: Bogdan@softfornet.com
                      Vol. 1 issue #231 Feb, 25, 2001

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Topics in this issue:

Sponsor Message
Word from Publisher
1.I am verging on unsubscribing
2.I think every reader has now had enough
=====================

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (6)
============================================

1.Opt-in Mailing List Project
~Bill Bauer
~Seqkat
~Robin Forbes
~Robert Keating
~Tom
~Dan Roberts
~John watson
~Ross Reyman
~Dan Adams
~Robert Moser
~Emma
~Miccy Malse,

2.What is Opt-In Email?/Explained
~Bob Cortez
~Tom Falco
~Unknown

3.Children's Books
~Harry McGrath
~Daniel C. Kline
~Steve-O

4.Been Burned Lately?
~Robert Wilson
~Dora Collins
~Daniel Genegabuas

5.Promoting ACAD Newsletter
~Eddie Stoddard

6.Participating in Internet business from Africa
~Mutinda Kisio

N e w     P o s t s (3)
=========================

1.Steve-O
~Publishing an E-book

2.Roy McShane
~Where do I go from here?

3.Pamela Wener
~Spamming Search Engines

Site Review Requests   (3)
=========================

1.Joan
~http://www.clickref.com

2.Sheila
~http://www.heyfish-head.com/

3.Bethany Kendall
~http://bethanysbusinesses.homestead.com/index.html

Joke of the Day
=========================

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome 260 new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.

                                  ----===(*)===-----

I would like to thank everybody who responded to my request for
feedback in regards to opt-in mailing lists offering rewards.

This was great help. Now I posted some of the responses in this
issue and would like you to give me further feedback which
of those programs you would like to use as an advertiser.

Many of you probably already know and most will guess that
if the purpose of opening an email is to earn some credits
or cash, the recipient will be only interested in completing
steps required to earn them and will care less about the
advertised product or service.

We also know that purpose of advertising is not always immediate
purchase of product or service but creating of awareness and
branding.

Since my interest is to create opt-in list which will benefit both
advertiser and consumer, I will tray to get all of you involved
in this discussion which could result in best offer for both
parties.

We already experienced that some programs rewarding
for action are either totally useless or went out of business due
to weak areas in their concepts.

Here below is my initial proposal for concept of such a list
which would be useful for everybody.

1. Two tier model. You get paid from your own efforts and
     from affiliates you sponsored.
     (this is to encourage growth of the subscriber base)

2. In order to receive credit (e.g. $1- $5 , discount or free
    introductory offer) you will have to answer some
    questions which can be found on e.g. 5 page website.
   (built especially for this promotion)
    In order to answer questions you would have to read the
    material and there would be specific amount of time
    available to respond. (e.g. one day from the time
    message was sent. This is to prevent some specialized
    groups in exchanging of information and effortless
    earning of those credits.

3. You would give away your contact to build advertiser's
    mailing list as part of the deal. You could leave this
    mailing list later. You would be only subscribed to
    this list if you would earn above mentioned credits.
    This would guaranty to advertiser that they get mailing list with
    people who made the effort to go through the information
    and they are ready to receive more.
    We would ensure that email address is the correct one.
    E.g. The software used to mail Adland Digest provides
    reports if message was delivered. There are also ways to
    test if message was opened through Java Script.

4. I hope to add more points after couple rounds of this
    discussion. Please give me some feedback and more
    ideas.

=================I am verging on unsubscribing =====================
From:Melanie Kozik

Hello Adlanders...I have been reading this digest for about 2 years
now. Because of the length of time as a subscriber, I feel
compelled to write in and say I am probably not going to be reading
it anymore. I am verging on unsubscribing (so who cares right?)
but I am also a creature of habit. ;)

Adlands has somehow lately become an MLM e-magazine. I don't
like MLM. I didn't subscribe to an MLM list. If it isn't SFI, it's
Going Platinum or something else.

For those of you who *do* MLM, then it must be a wonderful
thing...but that is not what or how this list started off (as I well
remember.)

Does anyone else see this? Is anyone else sick/bored of it? Is
this just the flow? The way it is going because the majority of
subscribers want it that way?

Personally, I found the list worth reading when it contained
requests for help, innovative new ideas and a true spirit of business
commradery.

Here's some truth-If you were not successful at life Before the
internet...chances are Not in your favor that you will become one
Because Of the internet. The internet may bring with it a *FEW*
new opportunities, however, as a tool to promote and reach other
people you would not have reached before--it can take your *REAL
LIFE* business and rocket it into profits never dreamed of.

It is a SIMPLE matter of having a real business to start with.

All the best-Melanie Kozik

----------------------------------------------------
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*We are ONE Powerful Information Location Machine*
----------------------------------------------------

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note from Moderator.

In today's digest there is no message about MLM programs.
One of the reasons is that there were just few to publish.
I believe we reached saturation point of these topics.

In my opinion we can learn from discussions about MLM programs
as much as from discussions about any other issues related to
doing business on the internet. Each program has its good and
bad elements and to only find out about it, one has to be exposed to
it either through experience or discussion. I have learned several
new ideas and techniques from latest issues of Adland Digest
and can use it in my everyday business even if I don't run MLM
program myself.

B.F.

=================I think every reader has now had enough =====================
From:Rikie.

Hi Bogdan,

I know I've posted on the subject of SFI a few times, but I think every reader
has now had enough of BOTH viewpoints on SFI. Let's face it, you either like a
product or dont. If you like the product go out and get it. All your questions
WILL be answered by the promoters if it's genuine. If you don't like it don't
join!
Unless you know it to be a scam or have useful information then leave it alone.
That's my opinion for all the MLM type programs out there, not just SFI.
BTW I think your idea of an opt-in list is great. Get all the advertisements off
your newsletter and maybe we can get back to a really great information forum as
originally intended.

Keep up the great work
Rikie.

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:Bill Bauer
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

In regard to your request for input into the type of opt-in list deal
that you are talking about.

I have joined one about like that a long time ago called silverclicks.
They did and are doing exactly the same thing you are thinking about
doing. I did go click on a couple of their deals and then just put them
in my message filter and let the filter delete them as fast as they come
in.

Why? Because it's a time waster for me. I value my time a whole lot more
than I can ever gain from clicking on their links to products or
services which are very overpriced. To me, I would far rather just pay
a decent price for the opt-in list, send them my ad or ads and if they
are interested, fine and if they are not interested in what I have to
offer, then so be it.

My time is far too valuable to me to be fooling with such gimmicks, and
if I have to click on a bunch of silverfish to make two cents, then
forget it. It's a cheep trick and wastes my valuable time. So any
messages I get from those who are not willing to consider my time worth
something to them will just get deleted and quickly.

You have a good ezine which I enjoy reading. Don't ruin it with cheap
tricks.

Bill Bauer

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From:Seqkat
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Hey Bogdan,

In answer to your above question I have a touch of experience. I run an ezine
and to help my subscribers get more traffic to their sites, I run daily Solo
Ads, (that usually do NOT get read, viewed or visited)...but to get them read,
viewed and visited, my Solo Ads are FREE, and to win your FREE Solo Ad, you must
visit the Solo Ads site to find the answer to a question that I pose from this
site. This works wonderfully, for every single day, those Solo Ads get hits.
I know, for the subscribers send me the answers.

I got this idea from Kathy VanBeekom the publisher who publishes Free Cashhound,
who does this in the same way, except that she charges for the Solo's but to
guarantee hits, those who wish to submit free ads, must visit the site and
answer the questions.

I thought her idea was phenomenal but I wish to keep it free with my subscribers
for I'm trying very hard to help people promote their businesses for free for I
know I don't have the income to pay for advertising, and I wish to give others
the very break I need.

Anyway, I hope this information helps you.

By the way I LOVE your ezine. Like right now, it's 12:47 am and I just got your
ezine. I HAVE to read it, right away and ALL of it. It's addictive! It's so
informative, and I LOVE that we can interact and help others by sharing what's
worked for us, and that we can ask others for their help! Thank you, for such
an opportunity!

In His Joy,
Seqkat

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============
From:Robin Forbes
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Hi Bogdan;

I don't have experience with this on the publishing side but I am sort of
experienced on the Subscriber side of the question.
Here's a link to the iconocast prosumer; which I get every week (different
products each week of course)
http://www.iconocast.com/prosumer/
This comes to me via html email and it looks exactly like the webpage, complete
with the questions that it asks at the end. They also provide the link in the
email to view it in your browser if you like instead.

Cheers;
Robin Forbes

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============
From:Robert Keating
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Greetings Bogdan,

I know of one OPT-IN list that rewards the subscriber by registering points for
clicking on a link that is placed after the advertisers in the e-zines.

Once the subscriber has received the newsletter and clicked on the special links
that records the point and has accumulated 30 points, he is allowed a 5-line ad
free.

You can get all of the details here: http://inetimage.com/jump2.html

Robert Keating

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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.5)=============
From:Tom
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Bogdan,

A couple years ago I began using a reverse email method similar to your
opt-in description.

I receive several requests each week from marketers asking permission
to send me information about the program they're promoting. I give them
permission as long as they place the site counter number from the
bottom of my website in the subject area of their first email. My site
URL is located in the sig file of my short note. They can then place me
on their mailing list and I'll do the same.

Nearly everyone I contact this way visits my web site. In fact, they
seem eager to. Regarding effectiveness...I'm convinced a marketer's
natural curiosity gets them to read your offer.

Regards,
Tom

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.6)=============
From:Dan Roberts
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Hi Bogdan,

I have joined and participated in so many paid-to-surf programs that it's
ridiculous. I try to visit and read everything that is sent to me. I have
found that most Web sites don't sell (i.e., they don't tell me how I benefit
from having their product or service; they try to sell you everything in the
world).

Let me tell you about my experience.

I have bought from companies participating in the pay programs. Now I will
qualify this - I only bought the things that I wanted/needed. And only then
when they showed me "what's in it for me!" and gave me a fantastic price
break!

Companies still have to "advertise!" A vast majority (greater than 90%)of
the emails and Web sites that I visited just didn't have those ingredients
needed to entice me to buy.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not the paid-to-surf programs
that failed, it was the advertising companies that forgot (never knew) how
to turn a viewer into a buyer.

How about other optin lists? They don't work! Why? A lot of people join
thinking of all those millions of email addresses they are going to send
their ad to, and with a conversion rate of 0.1% that's still a lot of sells.
But alas, all they are doing is wasting their time sending their emails to a
bit bucket (or byte bucket in today's terminology). Everyone who joins an
optin list is told to find an email provider (several are mentioned) that
will automatically trash the messages they receive. Since everyone sends
their email to the bit bucket, who is left to read the ads? No one!

So, if you are going to start up an optin list/paid-to-surf/paid-to-read
program, don't just bombard me with words, show me the benefits and make me
want to buy! If you can do this, I will be a list member for life!

------
Dan Roberts

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.7)=============
From:John watson
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Hello Bogdan;

In the latest issue of Adlands Digest you asked for information
from anyone who had experience with the companies offering
the pay-to-read email services.

The best one I have found is MyPoints at http://www.mypoints.com
I have been with them for about two years and use my points to get
gift certificates for Home Depot and Barnes & Noble Book stores.

They offer good service and many different ways to earn points,
including purchasing from various stores through their website,
using their MasterCard, which I have, and referring others to their
website.

I hope this information is helpful.

John Watson

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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.8)=============
From:Ross Reyman
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Bogdan: Concerning Opt-in.

I feel that opt-in reach and are successful more often as free advertising
as any other free media on the internet.. A few comments:

1) 2 large companies in early 2000 kicked out the biz opt ads. This put the
burden of theglobe.com   Globe became almost impossible to get response like
before. I receive 3 entrances one day with 12 return as over quota or busy.
About a month ago, the original owner of theglobe returned and since it has
improved. I received 23 of 25 just yesterday with my mail box full. Also,
Yahoo went into the mailing list(opt-in) business as few weeks ago. There
is a list of who is working at http://5millionfreebies.isFun.net

2) AS PER ADVERTISERS: 90% is headlines. You will probably receive e-mails
that it don't work. Like all forms of advertising, you must attract the
reader with seconds or your ad will not be read. Successful advertisers must
drive the reader to their web site, or to receive free information via email
or both. It take a lot of work and rewriting and editing.I would also,
summit every other day since readers get tired of the same message. Better
yet publish 2 ads, and publish them 3 days per week.

3) CONCERNING PUBLISHING. When one of the companies dropped biz-opts in
2000, they did not tell me but returned my ads as not permitted. I
telephoned the company and found that the woman who I talked to was leaving
the company and stated that they were making a lot of money of the opt-in's,
but the security was so poor that the owner was almost ready to go crazy
answering all the problems. BODGAN, I WOULD NOT GO INTO THE OPT-IN BUSINESS
unless I had a strict security system and my advertiser had a separate web
based email address to receive the messages. I WOULD GO INTO THE OPT-IN
BUSINESS based on the fact that there is money there and we all need more of
that.

GOOD LUCK
Ross Reyman

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.9)=============
From:Dan Adams
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Hi Bogdan,

I know its been awhile but I'm still out here.

I am not overly active in outside programs simply because my
time is taken up running the on line TMR business. However,
for some unknown reason I signed up with resource.com and they
have a program that you can add 10 to 20 cents to your account
by viewing their advertiser url and answering a simple click
pop up single question quiz. It's more of a mind challenge
game (breaktime) for me to see how fast I can find the answers
and get on with business as usual.   But the advertising method
is effective as I have briefly reviewed every site and acted on
a couple of the more interesting ones with either purchase or
inquiry.

They are running a $60. special for advertisers right now that
I was going to try out yesterday .. but their auto sign up
method was askew and I don't have the extra time for them
today. I probably will still give them a try before their
deadline on their special.

It's hard to believe I have known you and your online business
since my conception of TMR back in 96'. We are some of the
rare few who are still banging away and hopefully making a
buck. Maybe our slow step by step method isn't the fastest
money makers but at least we are still around.

I have a long term Classifieds Adland site that I still promote
from my home page and have tried the classifieds and banners
myself. Got some results from the country wide classifieds but
I guess my product isn't one of the best for banners. Didn't
really see much results. Have tried other banners with little
results as well.

I will watch as you put your opt-in system together and
definitely will want to be one of your first advertisers to
give it a go after it's ready.

Always the best wishes to you and yours.

Dan Adams, mktg. mgr.

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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.10)=============
From:Robert Moser
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Hi Bogdan

In regard to the above, one of the best programs that I know exist
is a lead generation program that I have been in since Dec 99.
This has been in development over 2-3 years and looking better
all the time. The URL is:

http://referalmarketing.ebasebusiness.com

They have 20 plus pages of FREEBIES that are useful where people will
sign up to receive free vacations, free computers, free FFA, free
search engine submission, free classifieds, free downloads, free
blastomatic, plus more etc. This might be a useful program for you
as I think you could incorporate this with your program also. If
you take the time to check this out you will see its done very
in great detail to avoid any spam and to make sure e-mail address
valid ones.

It is not FREE. It costs a one time membership of $150 and $19.95
per month, but compared to others this program does get you desired
results in promoting any program and building you a data base.

Let me know what you think!

Have a Great Day!
Robert Moser

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.11)=============
From:Emma
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

Lunartic.com had a program like that , that you could get paid for reading as
well as for writing emails. It seemed to be very effective - I really enjoyed
reading and writing. But, it was not allowed to be advirtising - just
information. I think it would be great to be able to write informative articles
and still publicize my business, of course , it wouldn't just be one big
infomercial, but, providing information as well as where one could get what you
write about. Sounds Great - I can't wait until you get it up. Just, all I ask is
that you keep it up and running once it is. Lunartic.com has been down for about
a month.

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.12)=============
From:Miccy Malse,
Subject:Opt-in Mailing List Project

What you are talking about is like what Resource-a-Day is doing. It is an
ezine that you sign up for. They pay you $10 for signing up...You get money
for referrals too. I believe it is 40 cents for first level..20 cents for
second level..and so on...4 levels deep and as wide as you want.

They send an email about twice a week with website links. You earn silver
clicks for visiting websites. Silver clicks can be cashed in for merchandise
at kind of like an auction site where you bid silver click points.

They also have 10Q5A. That's like a paid email...they send you advertiser's
links to click on, and when you answer the trivia question about the website
you visited, they pay you 10 cents. It goes into your Resource-a-day account.

They also have very reasonable rates for paid advertising, and many people
advertise with them because, of course, their is a high click through rate.

You have to earn $50 before they send you a check. I have already been paid
once, and have over $20 accumulated toward my next pay check. So--it doesn't
pay much, but it is one of my favorite programs.

Check it out here: http://www.resource-a-day.com/members/megamalse

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:Bob Cortez
Subject:What is Opt-In Email?/Explained

Greetings Bogdan and fellow Adlander's!

As is too often online, a term has been construed and confused to
the point of almost becoming meaningless. "Opt-In" means that
the recipient of an email has agreed to receive email from the
sender through a positive act.

The Adland Digest is an 'Opt-In' list. The only way you receive
this email is through the positive act of entering your email and
pressing the subscribe button.

This doesn't mean you have given Adland permission to send you
anything else. You ONLY agreed to receive this digest. Many
list owners act as though once you have given them your email
address, they are free to send you whatever, whenever they want.
Unless you make the positive act of agreeing to receive anything
and everything from the sender, then anything BUT what you
specifically agreed to would be considered spam.

Another type of 'Opt In' is when you agree to accept product or
web site updates. Many times, this agreement is a condition of
receiving something in exchange. Perhaps a free download or
report. Or it may be a small check box on the order form for the
product that you just purchased. As a matter of principle (IMHO)
those check boxes should NOT be pre-checked. Remember, to be
truly 'Opt-In' requires a positive act by the recipient. The
failure to remove a check mark is NOT a positive act.

Another type of Opt In list are so called "Safe Lists". These
are lists where everyone agrees to receive ads from the list in
exchange for the ability to send ads to the list. These are
basically the email equivalent to an FFA site and just as
ineffective.

You can also opt in to receive emails on a particular subject
through services like http://postmasterdirect.com or
http://yesmail.com . These services charge a fee to the senders
of email, so typically the quality and the presentation of the
information you receive will be superior.

As for the idea of paying subscribers to read or respond to
email, I suppose this model could work depending on what your
goals are. Off the top, I can't think of a product or service
that would benefit from paying somebody to read or respond to an
email. If the target, message and offer are all good, then
payment is unnecessary. If you have a problem with any of those
three, then you're wasting money on paying subscribers anyway.
This is the same problem I have with the pay-to-surf model as
well, unless as an advertiser you're just looking for the
'awareness' factor.

So that is what Opt In is and isn't. Now, what are the best ways
to use Opt In email as part of your online promotion efforts?

1) First and foremost, start building your own list TODAY. The
most valuable asset any online business has is the permission to
send email to contacts. Provide quality content that your
subscribers want to receive and will read.

2) Participate in email discussion lists like this one. Read my
article on Personal Branding to see how to get the most out of
participating. (http://tqm-online.com/branding.htm or
mailto:branding@tqm-online.com )

3) Write articles and submit them to newsletter publishers for
inclusion in their newsletter.

4) Sponsor a newsletter or discussion list. Choose carefully
however, and don't waste money on those publications that are
mostly ads and little content.

5) Use quality opt in list services like postmasterdirect.com to
deliver your announcement to an audience that has requested to
receive messages on your topic.

Of course there is much more, but these are the basics. I hope
it was helpful.

Bob Cortez, Affiliate Manager

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From:Tom Falco
Subject:What is Opt-In Email?/Explained

In response to Sue Brown's comments about opt-in lists.

I was talking about anonymous lists that people actually
purchase on CD's or get in emails in large groups from
total strangers who actually harvest these emails
illegally.

We are being harvested from this list right this second
by this unscrupulous type. Then the names are sold
as opt-in subscribers, which is a lie. I am not responding
to this so that I could be added to an illegal email list.

What Sue is doing is opt-in because she and the others
choose to receive this barrage of ads which are basically
eZines, with no content. Only ads.

Hope this clarifies my stance!

Thanks,
Tom Falco

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Save up to 50% at our eCatalog!
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From:Unknown
Subject:What is Opt-In Email?/Explained

Hello Sue,

What you are describing is a safelist. Yes, you opt-in by becoming a member,
but a safelist is more like a club where members agree to receive email
notices from each other. I don't do this anymore because it was too time
consuming for me, but it did work. Sure, everyone is trying to sell, but with
good headlines and offers, you can get your mail read and even sponsor people
into your program. I did an article about these a couple of years ago. You
can find it at   http://panographics.com/dollarlines/safe-art.htm

As for Rikie's comments... A safelist is not "just autoresponder talking to
autoresponder." Auto responders a banned from every good safelist, and their
use will get you thrown out. You will lose your membership and your fee.

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the big one with Grand-Slam Gold! Where one
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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From:Harry McGrath
Subject:Children's Books

Hi Warren:

I have had excellent success selling self-authored books on eBay. My
sister who authors and illustrates children's books is now teaming
with another author and eBay seller to do this.

The key is to have a web site and link your web site in the body of
your auction description on eBay. I get as many sales from people
clicking through to my web site from an eBay auction --as I do from
the auction itself.

My web site has a newsletter that has an item in it about creating
information products for sale on the web. You might want to check it
out. When you get to the web site, click on "current newsletter" and
read the article on selling your own information products on the web.

Good luck

Harry McGrath

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Resources for On-line Auction Sellers
http://www.auction-sellers-resource.com
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.2)=============
From:Daniel C. Kline
Subject:Children's Books

Hi Bogdan,

I wouldn't bother to respond if it hadn't been you. Basically, I never believed
in opt-in lists. Early on (Dec, 1999 - March 2000) they were fairly effective.
Then they became just another way to create Email Pollution and mailing lists.
I hope you prove me wrong, but I think we need a new model. If I knew what that
was, I'd already be developing it. Like with most people, 80% or more of my
email is never opened, just flushed. I feel fairly fortunate, in that my first
year of network marketing netted $15,000. 90% of the people I run into are
running in the red. I can feel the idea dancing on the horizons of my awareness
and imagination, but I can't make it out yet. Somewhere key to the idea, is the
premise that any message to any recipient is guaranteed to only be sent once .
"use it or loose it". Also it would need a way to differentiate itself from the
hundreds of messages that are received every day. And lastly it would need to
be precluded with mystique and anticipation (marketing in the real sense!).

Do you care to volley this one back and forth a while and see if it takes shape?

Warmest Regards,
Daniel C. Kline

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.3)=============
From:Steve-O
Subject:Children's Books

It would seem that I am in the same fix as you in marketing an E-book.
My E-book is Piano Sonatas so I have targeted those musicians and forums
on the net, sadly this hasn't been enough.
What I would do for your Childrens E-book is Target Schools. Send out
announcements on the internet to schools with kids in the age bracket to
be interested in your book. I believe most Schools have internet
connection now^_^
Good luck
Steve-O

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From:Robert Wilson
Subject:Been Burned Lately?

Mrs. Braun
Let me start by saying Ive been in your shoes and its not your fault or your
responsibility to say "your sorry" just for the simple reason that the odds are
stacked against you from the start.
Fact is that there are less than 20 network marketing companies that have
managed to last five years or more and the industry standard is failure within
one year.
Fact is that 95% of the unfortunate people that get involved with these
companies will fail or just give up.
It doesn't paint a pretty picture but here are some helpful hints that may save
you some frustration in the future because there are honest, reputable companies
out there that can still salvage your dream of owning a successful internet
business you can be
proud of.
1. stability - avoid start-ups and don't be afraid to ask how long they have
been in business.
2. products - look for proprietary products, companies that have taken the time
to develop and patent products will more than likely be around for the long
haul. One other note on products would be to never involve yourself in anything
that requires you t
o purchase a garage full of products.
3. pay plans - a reputable firm will gladly let you see what their distributors
are making at each level, not just the top earners.
4. research - nothing beats a little old fashioned detective work, call the
better business bureau and check business publications. A company listed on
"Inc" 500 is a good indication that they are reputable.
5. distributor support - look for a company that offers training both in person
and on the web - companies willing to travel to your area to perform training
are truly interested in the welfare of their distributors.
6. quick start programs - look for companies that offer regional quick starts,
this is where a group of distributors has joined together in an office or a home
to pull their resources to grow their businesses even faster.
I certainly hope this has helped and let me just reiterate that its definitely
not your fault that this has happened to you and I wish you the best of luck in
the future
Yours,
Robert Wilson

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bobby01@bellsouth.net
Helping People earn a good Second Income.
http://www.gulfstream-group.com
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.2)=============
From:Dora Collins
Subject:Been Burned Lately?

Hello Jacqueline Braun; yes me to . but as i go on
there are some good people that i have found, thank
God.but before that , i was ready to call it an day
with the internet, i am trying to set up my site's and
it is very hard to get help, they tell you it is easy,
just send your money in and they will do the rest, you
know that not right, it has been five months and i
have not received an penny from any of my site's then
you are told that they are not put right, then you do
it all over again, so i will give it one more month,
then i will give it up. the money i have spend it will
be my lost.what can one do, maybe i can sell it,and
save face..oh" well i thank you for letting me that i
was not the only one.

Dora Collins

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.3)=============
From:Daniel Genegabuas
Subject:Been Burned Lately?

Aloha Jacqueline

Been retired I enter the big black hole on my
monitor "the internet"

I know the feeling. I been on now for 5 months
and everything did look good and I too, took the
bait

I signed up, paid up ... bills is up. I even had
to put a stop order at my bank not to paid some
of them, because I didn't have no contact what's
so ever ...email, telephone, you said it.
There and then I decide to help newbie like me to
be aware of the internet. (Somebody on this forum
did mention reporting these kind of people to the
FTC)

But..(there's always a but)...there are good programs
out there and the good ones, "I learn," if I get
good upline support. Thats the programs I stick too.

Regards to site, boy! do I know the feelings.

Started with all kind of web building sites (also
the one you mention) been a newbie I was
drowning in confusion until I found zdnet, its free
and they don't even hound you to buy anything, need help
and they are there. (awesome people)

I thought I had a good web site...after seeing the
others, I will make sure to make another one, whoever
looked at my site...dead give away - "a Newbie"

Jacqueline you must be a diehard? Me, too I guess.
Been step on, walk on and we still in there. This
world of the internet is addictive, but I'm enjoying
it.

Hope I made you feel better? There are many of us
like you ... still learning.

If you are interest in looking at a newbie web site:
http://pages.zdnet.com/dannyg00/newbie

Until then...aloha

Mahalo

Danny

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)=============
From:Eddie Stoddard
Subject:Promoting ACAD Newsletter

In response to Jos N van Doorn, how to promote a newsletter.
I too, had a very slow start in gaining subscribers, being a non-commercial
endeavour and very particular in subscribership. It seems a certain number of
folks would come on board and stay, but couldn't seem to accelerate. I then
ran onto http://www.raovishal.com , perhaps through the Adland newsletter and
downloaded his free e-book. My subscriber number doubled in 2 weeks and I
am currently subscribing about 50 per week. I know that doesn't sound like
much to the big sites, but I'm sure the numbers are proportional to the
promotion. I've since written an E-Cookbook for free download with
enrolment and have gone through the roof. I have no affiliation with
raovishal whatsoever, but owe a debt of gratitude to him and want to
share the experience of using his knowledge to help your business grow.

Eddie Stoddard

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (6.1)=============
From:Mutinda Kisio
Subject:Participating in Internet business from Africa

Hi All,

I agree with the comments expressed by Francis regarding Participating in
Internet business from Africa. The connection to the ISP and the phone costs
are very high. Obviously we need to liberalise our communications sector and
allow private sector participation in the provision of this services to
allow for lower prices.

Regarding the credit card problem, once I upgraded to an SFI member
(www.sixfigureincome.com/?354657), I got access to Midstates Bank which
gives SFI members good banking services and a Visa Debit Card as well! This
has removed the problem of making payments online.

The other serious problem with doing small business on the Net is banking
the small cheques received from activity on the Net. It costs close to US$10
to clear a cheque in the local banks and it takes three months for a foreign
currency cheque! This problem (in my case as an SFI member) has been removed
by Midstates Bank (www.msbna.com) as they accept my small cheques at no
cost.

What I have found irritating about the Internet is that it has chosen to
focus on USA and Canada leaving out people from especially Africa. The
worst bit is where you are required to provide a ZIP Code! These are unheard
of in my part of the world and though a very minor item, lack of it denies
you participation in very many Internet activities. Regarding snail mail
addresses, we use P O Box's and this causes
problems with some websites!

The last straw was when I visited a dating service for one of the biggest
Websites on the Net and the closest choice of description for an African was
"African American"! I started my own (www.mpenzi.net)!!!

Obviously we have to come out and help ourselves get noticed on the Net -
any ideas on how we can do it?

Mutinda Kisio

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kisio@mpenzi.net
Nairobi - Kenya
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

==============N e w P o s t i n g (1)=============
From:Steve-O
Subject:Publishing an E-book

I have published an E-book and regular book of Piano Sonatas.
I consider this my business since I make money from the amount of books
I sale. I thought that publishing an E-book would be a good marketing
idea for selling a book of Piano Sonatas. What do you think is the best
way to promote an E-book? Would it be in my best interests to create a
web page promoting my E-book and book of Piano Sonatas? They are on
Amazon.com and my publishers page, but that doesn't seem to generate
sales.
Please let me know your ideas
Thanks Steve-O

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bach@visi.com
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

==============N e w P o s t i n g (2)=============
From:Roy McShane
Subject:Where do I go from here?

Dear Members,

I'm relatively new to the Net and I just published my first novel which is being
distributed by amazon.com, Borders Books and Barnes & Nobel.

I've set up a web site on the novel at: www.phuketdir.com/hwelte/

The question is, "Where do I go from here?".

The novel is about one of the best kept Russian secrets of World War II - women
fighter pilots. It's historical fiction based on fact.

Dose anyone have any ideas on how I should market this book?

I'm open to any suggestions

Roy McShane

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

==============N e w P o s t i n g (3)=============
From:Pamela Wener
Subject:Spamming Search Engines

Hi Bogdan! I have been receiving Adland Digest for some time now and have found
the information in it very useful. I even had my site reviewed after entering a
contest that you sponsored on proof-reading everything you put on the net.
There is something that I have wanted to find out and I thought that posting to
Adland Digest would probably be the best and fastest way to get an answer. What
I would like to know more about is Spamming Search Engines. Is it considered
Spamming to resubmit your web site every three or four weeks? Does it matter
whether you are listed or not when you resubmit? I heard somewhere that
resubmitting to Yahoo every three weeks is considered Spamming. What about all
this Search Engine Submission software? I would really like to know because I
spend a lot of time submitting my 3 web sites manually to the top ten search
engines every three weeks and I don't want to jeopardize my listings with them
if I should not be resubmitting. I hope you will answer my questions, I am sure
that you have other readers who could use this information. I look forward to
hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Pamela Wener

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MrEverything.com your doorway to EVERYTHING dot com!!
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

=====================Site Review Request (1)===============
From:Joan
Subject:http://www.clickref.com

I need a site review because I'm just not getting the new account signups I
thought I would. I set up another new website at http://www.clickref.com. I
am offering remotely hosted ad tracking similar to ROIbot. ROIbot costs
$17/month. I'm only charging $10/month. Unlike ROIbot, I manually set up the
accounts, but I do them within 24 hours. I am taking credit cards through
ClickBank and have an affiliate program through them also, therefore, I had to
stop taking PayPal payments because it bypassed the affiliate program.
Currently I am only offering 10% commissions, but should business pick up, I
will be offering 40-50%.

To sweeten the offer I am offering free ad tracking accounts with the enrollment
into the Ad Placing program. I make money from AP and if someone is willing to
work hard and promote, so can they. With all new 30 day accounts or with
enrollment into AP I am giving away 500 free banner impressions on the ClickRef
site and access to the members only page full of hot tips, marketing/advertising
info, scripts, downloads and the like. In addition to that, I recently started
offering free website building to new AP referrals for those that don't have a
webpage to promote it or don't even know where to begin. ClickRef is getting
over 1000 hits a month, but that's due to my own efforts of generating traffic.
That may seem low to some of you, but heck, I gotta work for a living during the
day so I'm not online 24/7. However, the traffic apparently is not quality
traffic. It's coming from the trade visit sites like WebmasterQuest
(TradeVisits), Hit Harvester, ClickThru, etc. so people are more interested in
points rather than actually reading a site. Once in a while I get a hit from a
classified ad I've placed.

I have considered pay-per-click search engines, but they post the bid prices in
the links. If someone sees you're paying .50 per click, they are vicious enough
to click it just so you get charged.

I have advertised my brains out on FFA sites (yuck, I know), classified sites
and paid for several ezine ads that have hundreds of subscribers. Still
nothing. However, since I started advertising free ClickRef accounts with new
AP signups, I generated three new AP referrals in about a week. Now it's
completely dead and I have no new AP referrals.

I am bending over backwards to get people involved in what I'm doing. I'm
trying to make my site more sticky. They'll post to my non-networked FFA site
(where links don't scroll off the page), but they won't sign up for a tracking
account. So last night I added a message board and I hope to get people more
involved.

I have one paying client and I have no idea if they'll renew for another month.
Like I said, I have sold three AP memberships and offered them all free ClickRef
ad tracking accounts and they still haven't activated their accounts. Why?
It's not rocket science. I have set up a very detailed FAQ page on ClickRef on
how to run it.

My site may not be top-notched when it comes to layout and design, but dang it
anyway, the content is sure there. I see ROIbot links all the time. I want to
see ClickRef links instead.

Are people just lazy? Am I expecting too much? The ad tracker works great. I
use it myself and I can see where my hits are coming from. I find there are
several classified ad sites that bring me a lot of hits for other things I'm
involved with. What am I doing wrong?

Joan

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

=====================Site Review Request (2)===============
From:Sheila
Subject:http://www.heyfish-head.com/

Hey everybody - I so enjoy Adland Pro that I have been inspired to start a
newsletter. I would
appreciate a honest review of my web site, www.heyfish-head.com. Constructive
criticism and
suggestions, please - I cry easily:( Please keep in mind that I have been on
the Net about
one year and I am self-taught.

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

=====================Site Review Request (3)===============
From:Bethany Kendall
Subject:http://bethanysbusinesses.homestead.com/index.html

Hello Bogdan,

I would like to get a site review for my webpage from
the adland digest members. I appreciate all input
from anyone. If they choose they may email me
privately at myebiz2001@yahoo.com

http://bethanysbusinesses.homestead.com/index.html

Thank you,
Bethany Kendall

comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com

=====================Joke of the Day   (1)===============

One night at an economy motel, I ordered a 6 a.m. wake-up
call. The next morning, I awoke before 6, but the phone did
not ring until 6:30. "Good morning," a young man said
sheepishly. "This is your wake-up call."

Annoyed, I let the hotel worker have it. "You were supposed
to call me at 6!: I complained. "What if I had a million-dollar
deal to close this morning, and your oversight made me miss
out on it?"

"Well, sir," the desk clerk quickly replied, "if you had a million-
dollar deal to close, you wouldn't be staying in this motel!"