ADLANDS' DIGEST
A Free subscribed Discussion List
of 25,020 subscribers
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Bogdan Fiedur, Publisher
mailto: Bogdan@softfornet.com
Vol. 1 issue #214 May, 12, 2001
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Topics in this issue:
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=====================
C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n s (4)
============================================
1.Promoting Spam, really??
~Bob Cortez
~Franklin Banker
~John Colanzi
~Andy Sparks
~Peter G. Browne
~Robert Lee
~Melody T Vargas
~ Robert Lee
2.Spamming
~Colleen Dick
~Seqkat
~Jaye!!
~GJK
~David Weed
3.Hidden Costs
~John Colanzi
~Steve Pronger
~Nancy Kramer
4.Mass Marketing
~Phil Sheline
Site Review Responses (2)
=========================
1.Eddie Stoddard
~http://www.Create-Website.com
2.Phil Sheline
~http://www.Create-Website.com
Joke of the Day
=========================
================== Word from publisher ====================
Greetings All
Welcome 190 new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.
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In last issue of Adland Digest there was a top sponsor message which
brought back to me some very strong words in regards to Adland Digest,
http://www.adlandpro.com/archives/240.htm
and practically association
with promotion of spam.
Tom Falco writes this in regards to spamming.
One reason there are problems could be an ad that ran in
the last issue of Adland Digest. The top sponsor ad was
selling 15,000 emails for $99.00. That is ground zero. We are
talking about eradicating spam, and the top ad in the very
ezine is selling harvested email addresses. I hope all of
my 25 pop accounts weren't on that list.
Tom Falco
Ameircan Pop Trivia - the twice-a-week fun list!
http://www.xpectmore.com/pop.htm
After reading this, I wrote to Tom back and informed
him that this message is not true and shouldn't appear
in the Digest if he can't back it up with some more
research. His response was that this is censoring
and that this is very bad thing.
My reaction to this was writing to several long term Adland Digest
subscribers (where some of them were known for a very strong
stand against the spam ) and ask them for review of the site in
question and for their opinion in regards to Tom's message.
The first topic in Adland Digest are responses to my private
inquiry.
All but one responsea were clearly stating that ad was not
using any spam. There were some other issues brought
by the reviewers but the most relevant accusation that
digest promotes spam was just proved to be lacking
any merit.
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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:Bob Cortez
Subject:Promoting Spam, really??
Hi Bogdan,
You caught me as I was doing my final email check for the night, so I'm
taking the opportunity to respond now before it gets lost in the turmoil of
tomorrow <grin>.
I checked out the site in question, and it doesn't appear to me that they
are selling harvested emails. According to their FAQ the say:
<quote>
1. Where do the 15,000 e-mailings come from? Do you send my e-mail
advertisement to an e-mail address list you have? When you signup for a
Traffic Road Launch Page, we will create a webmaster posting portal for
you. This will allow people to submit their favorite links to you. Each
time someone submits a link to your page, you will send them your e-mail
response (advertisement). We guarantee you will send out at least 15,000
e-mails! It is 100% automated, you simply author the e-mail you want us to
send.
</quote>
This sounds like to me they have a hosted FFA site where the emails sent
are in response to somebody submitting information. As long as the person
making the submission is made aware that they will be receiving an email in
response I don't see a problem with this, and it isn't spam. I question
the value or wisdom of using this type of marketing, but it isn't
necessarily "wrong" or "unethical". I just doubt the
effectiveness.
Frankly, I have more of a concern about their search engine 'optimization'
and submission technics. Again from their FAQ they say:
<quote>
4. What is search engine optimization? What search engines do you submit
my optimized page to? How much better will I rank? Your Traffic Road Launch
Page will be specially designed to cause the major search engines to rank
you higher by hiding keywords throughout the page and setting the meta tags
for you. You optimized page will be submitted to the top 500 search
databases in terms of traffic. Including: Excite, Yahoo, AOL, Lycos,
WebCrawler, Direct Hit, Netscape, and more... You can expect to rank around
500% higher unless you're already using a optimized gateway.
</quote>
Any attempt to "fool" the search engines into higher rankings is a
sure
fire recipe for disaster. On line, this is worse than fooling with Mother
Nature. Gateway pages if providing real content and value are fine and a
reasonable marketing tactic. Creating pages like this with 'hidden
keywords' is just asking for trouble, and to be banned.
In addition to that they go on to say in their FAQ:
<quote>
5. When will my Traffic Road Launch Page expire? How long will it take to
get my Traffic Road Launch Page online and working? Your Traffic Road
Launch Page will expire exactly one month after it is initiated. You will
send a guaranteed 15,000 e-mails minimum in that time. After you signup,
your Traffic Road Launch Page will be ready within two business days.
</quote>
It takes longer than one month for most of the search engines to get you
listed! By the time they are listed the page is gone. What happens
to the
traffic after that date? My guess is that it is routed to other
"webmaster
posting portals".
A few other questions for them. They say 15,000 emails in a month, but
they don't say they are going to 15,000 different people. Why are these
people coming to this "webmaster posting portal"? What is in it
for them
to submit their valid email address and accept these advertisements? Why
don't they have any links to example pages? Why don't they have a sample
of the "webmaster posting portal"?
This is a pretty clever front for an FFA site combined with automated
search engine submission. (If they are doing what I suspect). I see
a lot
of things wrong with this, but SPAM isn't one of them.
Bob Cortez, President
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Quality Marketing, Inc.
http://tqm-online.com
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From:Franklin Banker
Subject:Promoting Spam, really??
Harvesting Emails? What?
Tom Falco, did you have a look at the Traffic Road site?
You state that they are "harvesting" email addresses on
the internet, and that is simply not true.
A quick review of the site reveals that they do not harvest
email addresses at all. They create a client's optimized
page, submit it to a list of search engines, and traffic is
realized as a result. Apparently they create a directory
or free for all links page, and webmasters can submit a
free listing if they "opt-in" to receive email notification or
offers.
They guarantee 15,000 emails will be sent in the process
for each client who signs up for the $99 fee. That is not
"harvesting". It is a completely different process, and it is
ethical as far as I can determine. When a link is listed,
the submitter must give permission to receive the email.
That makes it an "opt-in" service, not "harvesting".
I also want to state that I am not involved with the Traffic
Road site or it's business. I might not even use this type
of service, but I would never make a disparaging comment
about it. If Traffic Road can deliver on the offer, and if they
have "opt-in" permissions, then it is not "harvesting", and
it is not "SPAM". You owe them an apology.
Franklin Banker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://bblmedia.com/
Affiliate Marketing Resources
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============
From:John Colanzi
Subject:Promoting Spam, really??
Bogdan,
The site looks like an FFA type site. The
email addresses aren't extracted they're
created when a visitor submits their links
to the web page. Every visitor who submits
a link to the web page is sent an email by
the advertiser.
In my opinion it's not spam, it's the way
FFA sites work. If you submit your link,
the owner of the page you submit to sends
you an email.
The advertiser purchases a replicated web
page where visitors can submit their links
to the search engines and in return they
receive an email.
The owner of the site guarantees the advertiser
15,000 submissions visitors per month.
I don't see anything unusual and I don't see
how the mailings would be spam. If this is
spam every FFA on the net would have to close
down.
Regards,
John Colanzi
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============
From:Andy Sparks
Subject:Promoting Spam, really??
Hi Bogdan;
I will be out of the office, the largest portion of the day,
today,(Thursday). I sent an email to the company asking where they get
their emails and I read their contact information. They claim they are a
member of the Better Business Bureau Online and appear to have good contact
information. I am typing this at 6:00 am Eastern Time, so it is to early
to
call and see if they answer the telephone.
This is a direct cut & paste from their F.A.Q. page. It appears that
they
set up a page similar to an FFA links page and the emails are sent in
response to posted links, which makes them NOT Spam.
1. Where do the 15,000 e-mailings come from? Do you send my e-mail
advertisement to an e-mail address list you have?
When you signup for a Traffic Road Launch Page, we will create a webmaster
posting portal for you. This will allow people to submit their favorite
links to you. Each time someone submits a link to your page, you will send
them your e-mail response (advertisement). We guarantee you will send out
at least 15,000 e-mails! It is 100% automated, you simply author the
e-mail
you want us to send.
2. Are the 15,000 e-mails sent from my computer? What do I have to do to
send them?
After you signup for your Traffic Road Launch Page your e-mails will begin
automatically being sent out from our server! You simply write the e-mail
advertisement you would like to send and you're done.
3. Can I track how many e-mails have been sent? How long does it take to
send them?
You can track how many e-mails have been sent by logging into your account.
Your 15,000 e-mails are send in just on month's time.
I am not certain that Tom reviewed the site, before sending the email in
question. SPAM is such a heated subject, sometimes people jump to
conclusions. If you post a link and agree to receive emails in return,
that
is NOT SPAM. Spam is any Unsolicited Commercial Email sent to people that
you don't know or don't have a previous business contact.
Andy Sparks
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.5)=============
From:Peter G. Browne
Subject:Promoting Spam, really??
Hi Bogden ,
To me and more than likely over 3/4 of adlands subscribers that
was an ad for a spammer. You took his money to fill an ad
spot. then we the readers and participants were slapped in
the face. All of our comments and thoughts about SPAM
and spammers are now meaningless. The newbies that
we are all trying to help are buying these CD's full of
addresses and getting shut down or receiving flame e-mails
from people that did not subscribe to them. These newbies
see it in Adlands and perhaps think that with this conversation
and the very obviously placed ad that these addresses are
not spam lists.
In my opinion the running of the ad was in error and by doing
so it sent a different message to people and i would not be
surprised if there was a rash of un-subscribes following it.
One thing Tom missed mentioning was that with the 15,000
e-mail addresses if you act early you would get a bonus of
15,000 more addresses. 30,000 addresses that you can spam
at your leisure while the advertiser takes your hard earned money.
Simple opinion, You were wrong to run the ad at any price.
You cheapened your publication and destroyed our words
on SPAM. All in one little text ad. Also calling the ad a
"POWER TIP" sends the newbie on a path to ruin, they
do follow ads like this and actually consider to be advice
and not just an ad.
How do you recover? Perhaps a short special edition just to
cover this exact situation. I was pretty disappointed when I
saw the ad but this e-mail asking opinions is a step in
renewing my faith. Thanks for asking it shows that you respect
my opinion. I know how difficult it can be to do business on-line
and remain a success at it, but you have a responsibility
to your subscribers to research what you put in print before
it becomes a problem.
Sincerely,
Peter G. Browne
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.6)=============
From:Robert Lee
Subject:Promoting Spam, really??
Bogdan,
Here is the letter and reply that I sent to the owner of Traffic Road:
I have looked at
http://www.trafficroad.com/
Since it is your company taking payments for them can you tell me a little
about this company?
Are they established?
How long have they been in operation?
Have you had any complaints or refunds by their customers?
Is this run by your people/company?
Thanks,
Robert Lee
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Crowe [mailto:dacrowe@earthlink.net]
Sent: 10-May-01 6:50 AM
To: robertl@datingdating.com
Subject: RE: Please help me....
Robert,
Great questions. What happened was we hired a couple of freelance
marketing people to help us advertise our site. We were so impressed
with the results, I brought them onboard full-time to work with us and
other companies to increase traffic to other business sites.
The campaign was the best we have ever done. We have built a large
database that grows on a continual basis. Our product is different than
most, however, we focus on capturing information and closing our sales
after several contacts via email, phone and the like.
I will be out of town for a few days on business. If you'd like to talk
further, you can reach me on Monday morning between 9-11 CST or on Wed.
of next week.
I'll be checking my email over the weekend. If you want to start a
campaign before next week, call me on my cell phone at 630-561-5009.
Thanks for your interest.
Doug Crowe
President
Unwired Warehouse
630-681-9424
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.7)=============
From:Melody T Vargas
Subject:Promoting Spam, really??
Bogdan,
Feel free to share whatever you'd like of my opinion with Tom.
I would agree with Tom if the site was selling harvested email
"pseudo" opt-in compilation lists. It isn't. I respect Tom's
opinion on the spam issue, but I don't see the attack on this
particular advertiser as justified. I called the PIYB one pretty
accurately and I think I have a handle on this one too.
They are not an "ezine selling harvested email addresses." They
aren't selling a list. It also doesn't appear that they are even
selling a direct marketing email to their own opt-in list, ala Post
Master Direct.
What TrafficRoad is promoting, I think, is an FreeForAll (FFA)
link set-up. It is opt-in because the chumps, ahem, "opt-ins"
are opting to send in their "favorite links." In response to
their
individual, unique form based submission, the marketer who buys
TrafficRoad's product generates an automatic advertisement in
response.
This isn't usual for FFA submissions and people do sometimes
expect to receive an email ad in response. Many set-up free Yahoo
or Hotmail accounts just for this purpose, so they can delete these
emails without reading them. So while the program sends email
in response to email, which technically could be considered opt-in,
it isn't a very effective or efficient marketing method.
I don't think that 15K in submissions is an unreasonable number
to expect from an FFA page that is listed with one of the FFA
automated submission program sites. I'll also assume that registering
with these sites with the automated programs is part of the service
TrafficRoad offers as part of their top 500 search engine submissions.
If not, I don't see any possible way they would be able to guarantee
the number of emails.
TrafficRoad mentions that they optimize and submit the page they
create for their customers, but the page also expires after one month.
Personally, I think this is one of their shadiest areas. I see it as a
way to get out of proving the quality of the submissions/optimization.
Since there are few, if any, major search engines that list sites within
a month, the FFA automators and a few manual directories are the
best listings a customer could expect, in my opinion. Considering
that TrafficRoad and its parent company Resource Telecom & Marketing
(aka UnWired Warehouse) is not ranking well in any of the major or
minor search engines, I doubt that their search engine optimization
skills are that great.
My opinion of TrafficRoad is that they are not frauds or spammers, but
I don't think they are telling the whole truth either. They don't provide
any examples of their work for people to judge and I believe that they
leave out some facts that it difficult for their potential customers to
make an informed decision.
However since I don't see any indication that they are harvesting and
selling email addresses, I'd ask Tom to take a look at the site's FAQ
and see he still feels the accusation applies.
I'd probably also ask the TrafficRoad people if they could provide the
URL of a sample optimized page they create. If Tom thinks they are
selling harvested email addresses, I'm sure other readers do too. I
think it would be to both your and TrafficRoad's advantage to counter
that with an example and clarification of the offer.
Best,
Melody
__________________
Melody T Vargas
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.6)=============
From:Robert Lee
Subject:Promoting Spam, really??
Hi Bogdan,
I read the last issue and initially thought that something seemed strange
about the ad. 15,000 emails for $99.00? Good deal. But once I visited the
site, as you requested, what I found is a site that takes your $99.00 and
actually offers very little.
Just what do you get for your $99.00, you ask?
Well, you get a generated FFA page. For the newbies to the list, this is a
Free-For-All page where others are encouraged to add the website link to
your page in the hopes of generating traffic, then they are sent a
"confirmation email" that advertises your web site.
But that's great you say! Wait it's NOT ALL!
You also get a generated "Traffic Road Launch Page" that will be
submitted
to the top 500 search engines and get you more traffic to your site!
Whoopee!!
But you have to act fast because all this traffic is only guaranteed for one
month, after that, you either buy again or your "Traffic Road" page is
removed.
And the price has been reduced from a regular $199.00 to an unbelievable
$99.00!
And, hey, they have a Better Business Seal on their FAQ page, they must be
legitimate too, right?
Well, let's really take a hard look at this "Traffic Road" program.
1. FFA pages went out about 4Q 1999 as a way to generate ANY relevant
traffic at all and now they are just a BIG WASTE OF TIME! But they still get
submissions and you still do send out confirmation emails, so in all
likelihood, you will have your site advertised the 15,000 times that they
say. Whether or not anyone will read these "confirmation emails" is
anyone's
guess. Personally, they are just spam, although NOT sent by you, they are
actually requested by the person that adds their website to your "Traffic
Road" page, so who's to blame?
2. The awesome "Traffic Road Launch Page" is absolutely a sham! Put up
a
website, submit it for 30 days to EVERY known search engine (top 500, what
the heck is that anyways?) and then close the website down. You wouldn't do
that to generate traffic, would you? Well, that's what the Traffic Road
program will do for you. Take your $99.00, create a useless FFA page and a
page that gets submitted to search engines, then close it down after 30
days. I see NO appreciable benefit to this program, except for the fact that
it has spurred some talk and made Bogdan a few dollars.
3. This company(?) is very new, see the WHOSIS information below. I guess
that they have NO customer complaints, since the website just went up a few
days ago. Their better Business Bureau information at:
http://www.bbbonline.org/profile.asp?ID=10102121138914800
does NOT refer to the Traffic Road website, just the main owner's website.
But there will not be any complaints, I am certain, since Traffic Road is so
new. I really doubt that the BBB seal is relevant to THIS business.
4. QUOTE from their "About Us" page:
At Traffic Road we specialize in helping businesses and entrepreneurs get
established on the internet. From our free tools, to our professional
advertising packages we can help any business, large or small, become
successful online.
END QUOTE
What free tools?
What professional advertising packages?
Maybe they are "coming soon"?
Just like your Internet access from Going Platinum!! (Sorry, I just had to
add that!)
The Traffic Road website payments are hosted by:
https://www.unwiredwarehouse.com
I sent them an email, we'll see if there is a response in the next day or
two, if there is, I'll forward it. I guess that cell-phones aren't selling
too well, so they have turned to this for a fast buck, since the same people
and numbers are listed for both web sites. Unwiredwarehouse.com has been
around since 2000-07-19.
www.TrafficRoad.com WHOSIS information:
Resource Telecom and Marketing
1616 E. Roosevelt Road
Wheaton, Illinois 60187
US
Domain Name: TRAFFICROAD.COM
Administrative Contact:
Douglas Crowe dacrowe@earthlink.net
Resource Telecom and Marketing
1616 E. Roosevelt Road
Wheaton, Illinois 60187
US
Phone- 630-681-9424
Fax-
Technical Contact:
Douglas Crowe dacrowe@earthlink.net
Resource Telecom and Marketing
1616 E. Roosevelt Road
Wheaton, Illinois 60187
US
Phone- 630-681-9424
Fax-
Record updated on 2001-04-25 07:42:48.
Record created on 2001-04-25.
Record expires on 2002-04-25.
Database last updated on 2001-05-09 21:54:28 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS3.HOSTSVR.COM
209.61.140.4
NS4.HOSTSVR.COM
209.81.71.68
The previous information has been obtained either directly from the
registrant or a registrar of the domain name other than Network Solutions.
Network Solutions, therefore, does not guarantee its accuracy or
completeness.
http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois
My hope is that EVERY member of this digest is smart enough to see through
such a marketing technique as this. For those that may have joined, take
advantage of your 30 money back guarantee NOW.
If you are interested in having a page hosted, off your own domain on one of
mine, I'll do it for you. Just email me.
As far as Tom's comments:
According to Adlander, Desi, we should not be sending
emails out and if we do, we should be limited to 50 per day,
350 per week.
I respectfully submit that Desi is confused.
350 emails a week? In our business alone we get
over 350 emails a day in orders, questions, comments, etc.
Our ezine has 22,000 subscribers, how would we send it
out if we were permitted only 350 emails a week?
One reason there are problems could be an ad that ran in
the last issue of Adland Digest. The top sponsor ad was
selling 15,000 emails for $99.00. That is ground zero. We are
talking about eradicating spam, and the top ad in the very
ezine is selling harvested email addresses. I hope all of
my 25 pop accounts weren't on that list.
Tom Falco
END COMMENTS
I see NO relevance to the ad and his comments. If they had just clicked on
the ad, they would have seen that this is still an "opt-in" email
campaign,
not "harvested email addresses", a scam plain and simple, but still an
"opt-in" email is sent to the person that adds their website URL to
the
"Traffic Road Launch Page".
And if Tom is actually using 25 email addresses, I am sure that he gets too
much spam as it is, without having to promote his site on FFA pages.
I have 5 email addresses, different domains, and am still multiple spammed
every hour, never mind by the day.
As the carnival barker says "You pays your money, you takes your
chances".
The above, of course, are my opinions, take them or leave them.
Happy selling to all,
Robert Lee
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:Colleen Dick
Subject:Spamming
It's really simple, folks. Get them to opt in. Then if they make a
spam
complaint you can say, ah but you clicked the "I would like to receive your
newsletter." box. And make it clear, not tricky. And make it
reasonably
easy for them to get out of it. This is how I work. I am involved in
three
websites, one with 10,000 members, one with 15,000, and the new one with
just under 1,000, and I have never had a spam complaint from a user. We
have had web hosts get down on us for bandwidth violations, and our solution
to that was to just to move to our own server.
Colleen Dick
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From:Seqkat
Subject:Spamming
I agree with you Desi, that spam cries have gotten way out of hand, and hitting
reply with remove and hitting delete are quick solutions to the problem.
Limiting how emails one can send out per day or per week, is NOT the answer, for
ezine publishers have 1000's of subscribers, and some send out daily ezines.
The solution is to clearly DEFINE what SPAM is...and receiving commercial
advertisements in an ezine that a subscriber has agreed and subscribed to
receive, should NOT constitute the definition of SPAM...and SPAM fighters need
to WAKE UP to this. Offline magazines, have advertisements to support them
to
produce the magazine, well, online magazines called ezines, need advertisements
for the same reason - and it's ridiculous to say it is a crime when they run
it!! If a company sends me a magazine in the mail, that I did not request,
it's
not a crime! These SPAM cries are occurring when a subscriber REQUESTED
the
ezine!!!
As an ezine publisher this is a huge concern for me, and I'm not only concerned
for myself, but I'm also concerned for the people that advertise in my ezine -
their rights should be protected too.
Fellow publishers follow my example and set up a Disclaimer Subscriber
Agreement, so subscribers will know they are agreeing to receive commercial
advertisements in the ezine and will NOT charge the publisher or advertiser
SPAM. To see my example visit my site here and click on the DISCLAIMER
link at
the bottom on the left:
http://www.villageoftidbits.bigstep.com/
~ Success and blessings to all ~
In His Joy,
Seqkat
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From:Jaye!!
Subject:Spamming
You know,I'm inclined to agree with Dezi.I think that there's a lot of honest
hard working people out there being accused and kicked off the Net because of
some whiney cry babies because they received something that they didn't
request in their inbox.This is the way I see it,if you're going to be on the
internet you're going to at some point in time receive something that you
didn't ask for,I have plenty of times,But not one time have I ever complained
about it.People act like they don't know what the"DELETE"button is
for.This
is the most ridiculous rule I have ever heard of.That's all I read in every
email I receive because the ones that are trying to make a life for
themselves online are so afraid they will be accused of Spam.I was accused of
unsolicited emailing to someone on AOL.Now I'm usually a very calm
person,but I don't like being accused of something I didn't do.I only talk to
two people on AOL and I've known them both for years.When Tos,or whatever
they're called sent me a warning,I went Ballistic.I tried to get in touch with
them to confront my accusers,but they wouldn't help me with anything.They
sent me another email saying after evaluation that I would still be on a
probationary state.I have never sent out spam to anyone,but I was found
guilty in their eyes because of someone who got a piece of junkmail that I
didn't even send out.I really would like to know which is worse,the ones
spamming,the ones being accused of spamming and losing everything that they
worked so long to get,the ones that whine and cry wolf every time they get a
piece of mail they don't like,or last,but definitely not least,AOL and the
rest of the ISPs out there that wipe peoples dreams out over accusations that
they could care less whether they were true or not?If anybody has the answers
to these questions,I'd really like to hear them. Thanks for your time,Jaye!!
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.4)=============
From:GJK
Subject:Spamming
Sorry to drag out this subject, but I really do feel we should all come to our
senses. Firstly, these so called Spammers are trying to make a living, whether
we agree or disagree about the way they go about their business. We all receive
hundreds of Direct Mailings in our letter boxes each year, but do we complain
about that as much as we do when we get an email? Of course not! So why do some
people make Spam out to be so bad. Do we report door to door salesmen who come
to our houses trying to make a living? Of course not!
We all have an email system that can block senders and restrict incoming emails
to only those who we want to hear from! Or maybe some people are not aware of
that!
I do not condone Spamming nor do I agree with it. But the simple truth is,
we
all get Spammed because we are too darn lazy to set our email system up to stop
it! Either that or too darn STUPID!
To all of you who reply to Spammers, did you know you are Spamming them and you
are also liable to be prosecuted by them? Hate mail is a far more serious
"crime" than Spamming will ever be.
So many honest people who were not Spamming intentionally have lost everything
they worked hard for to achieve, because of some poor little person sitting and
waiting for someone to send them an email they didn't ask for.
There is another very simple solution to unwanted mail! DELETE IT!!!!
For those that make it their lifetimes ambition to stop and report every Spammer
in sight.... GET A LIFE!!! Stop wasting your valuable time and others.
GJK
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.5)=============
From:David Weed
Subject:Spamming
Gee whiz! talk about timing!
Less than two weeks ago I'm talking about how legitimate businesses can get
falsely accused of Spamming because spamming is often in the eyes of the
beholder. Today I get a call from my ISP about...you guessed it...a spam
complaint! Because I have been with this ISP for a long time and because
this
was my first complaint he called before taking any action. Thank goodness I
could show how I obtained the email address. Although the individual
claims
otherwise he did visit and enter his contact information in a request for
information. I still don't know if SpamCop will remove me from their Spammers
list or not.
So why am I telling everyone this? First, be absolutely certain you can document
the source of contact information for any email you send!
Second, If there are other businessmen that have been falsely accused of spam
and remain on SpamCop's (or any other) Spammers list...I think it is time we
fought back. If there are enough of us, I believe we may have grounds for a
class action suit against these so called "internet police" I have had
enough of
guilty until proven innocent. Contact me at birdofprey1@mailandnews.com
David Weed
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From:John Colanzi
Subject:Hidden Costs
Sharon,
CCNOW is an excellent company for hard goods.
Read their agreement and you'll see they don't
accept payment for e-books, online advertising,
software etc.
Sometimes they accept payments for these types
of products but once they realize what they are
they'll stop accepting the orders.
I think one way to go is to have two order links.
I use PayPal and Instabill. Instabill will accept
payments for online goods and services, with no
upfront cost and a low fee per sale.
http://www.instabill.com
I also thinks it's a good idea to have a snail
mail address for people who don't like using a
credit card online.
Regards,
John Colanzi
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.2)=============
From:Steve Pronger
Subject:Hidden Costs
In regards to Sharon's post "Hidden costs"
PayPal have a new service called Web Accept which is different to their
traditional service. As far as I can determine, your buyers do not need to have
a PayPal account to make a purchase. They just click on a button, get
transported to a secure site hosted by PayPal, and enter their credit card and
personal details. If anyone's used this service and has any comments I'd be
interested in hearing from them. I use Kagi (www.kagi.com)
which works quite
well for me, but PayPal seems to have lower fees. Both are considerably cheaper
than CCNOW.
Cheers
Steve Pronger
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.3)=============
From:Nancy Kramer
Subject:Hidden Costs
Regarding the discussion about card processors like PayPal and the hidden costs
of various merchant accounts, I'd like to recommend a solution that has worked
very well for me. I think I've mentioned it before, maybe a year or so ago, but
here it is again.
ProPay is an excellent card processing service that is actually free to join and
has very reasonable transaction rates. ProPay, unlike PayPal, does not require
your client or customer to become a member or fill out any complicated forms in
order to buy your product. You can use it in a number of ways depending on how
you do business both on and offline. You can either collect your customer's
credit card and billing information via a shopping cart program or by phone, and
then log into your ProPay account, enter the customer's info, and charge their
card; or you can log in, enter your customer's name and email, and ProPay will
send them a confirmation email asking them to enter their credit card info. Then
the money is put into your account. You can then beam it to your bank account;
it shows up within 2 days usually. Another great benefit is that your email
address appears on their credit card statement, so the customer is sure where
the charge came from.
Rather than list all of the services ProPay offers, visit their site today and
check it out.
https://epay.propay.com/appProcess1.exe/signup?oNaac6a6ajHKW4gD
The only caveat I can think of is that ProPay has a $250/transaction limit. This
may not be enough for some merchants; I had to finally get a merchant account
when I opened my current business, ExtraPureAir.com, because the average sale
was around $400. Also, they have something like a $1500 per month limit as well.
This can be restrictive for some.
For a great free shopping cart, I use EasyBasket (www.easybasket.com).
This is a
very intuitive, flexible cart program. The first 50 sales are free, and after
that, the cost is only $1.00 per transaction. EasyBasket is a very simple and
customizable program that will work well for a wide variety of merchants. You
can see it in action on my site www.extrapureair.com.
Since I now use Authorize.net to process credit cards, I recently bought a new
shopping cart program that I will be implementing soon. It cost $49.95 and I
chose it because it automatically processes credit cards through my
Authorize.net account. I am doing in excess of $20,000 per month now and the
manual billing process was killing me, time-wise. This new cart program has a
PayPal and a Checkspace version for those who utilize those payment methods. I
think the PayPal version is free.
Check it out at:
http://www.vShoppingCart.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/data/clickthru.cgi?id=nlkramer
You will note that I am an affiliate for 2 of these 3 services. I hope it's
clear that I am posting this information to help out my fellow online
entrepreneurs, not just to get some affiliate sales. I have been using ProPay
and EasyBasket for nearly 5 years now and I am 100% satisfied. Well, maybe 95% -
ProPay's customer service is a bit slow, but I've only had to contact them once.
Regards,
Nancy Kramer
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From:Phil Sheline
Subject:Mass Marketing
Dear Brian Hartman,
Well Brian, 9 Days later and not a single hit.
I paid Mass Marketing on April 29, 2001 and nothing yet.
They now charge $99 Per Month, $100 One-Time Setup which
I paid. After reading the May 8 posts on this subject I feel like the
chump that I obviously am but If anything good happens I will report
that to this group also.
Is AdlandPro the only honest program that works?
Phil Sheline
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
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=====================Site Review Response (1)===============
From:Eddie Stoddard
Subject:http://www.Create-Website.com
I don't think your website is the problem, it's actually very nice,
easy to navigate and fairly professionally done. In my opinion
it's the price you're trying to get for a few pages of webspace.
for instance, I have my domain with 150MB, cgi access, 5 pop
accounts......well in short ALL the perks for under $170 per year.
(Which I've had now for 3 years)
Your selling 5 pages, email accounts and not much else I can see
for almost $220.00. Obviously that is not much of a bargain and
if the benefits you list are all you have it doesn't offer enough for
the money you're asking. Not trying to be rude, but that price
is a little unreal. Best of luck.
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eddie@texascook.com
http://www.texascook.com
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comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
=====================Site Review Response (2)===============
From:Phil Sheline
Subject:http://www.Create-Website.com
Dear Steve @ Crissy,
When I visited your site it hit me in the face with RED Print.
The shock made me want to go away - I would have had it
not been that you requested this review.
I think blue would be more consistent with your basic website
Perhaps a more subtile approach like this site would work better:
<a href="http://www.net-profit.net">
http://www.net-profit.net </a>
Or something in between.
comments mailto:adland@softfornet.com
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=====================Joke of the Day (1)===============
At a party, a woman was observing a child who would hold his
chest whenever he bent down. After a few minutes, the
woman asked the kid, "Why do you hold your chest whenever
you bend down?"
The kid said, "One day, my teacher was writing on the board,
the chalk fell down, and when my teacher bent down to pick
up the chalk, I saw her lungs comes out of her chest."
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