ADLANDS' DIGEST
A Free subscribed Discussion List
of 25,180 subscribers
on web marketing and promotion
supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
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Bogdan Fiedur, Publisher
contact at
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Vol. 1 issue #320 Nov, 26, 2002
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Topics in this issue:
Sponsor Message
Word from Publisher
=====================
C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n s (3)
============================================
1.SPAM issue
~Tom Falco
~Oliver Jackson
~Claire Solt
~Dave Weed
2.Paid advertising.
~Andy Sparks
3.Ways to promote a small business
~John Olson
N e w P o s t s (3)
=========================
1.Wendy
~Downloadable products
2.Mark Chandler
~Just starting out
3.Scott Kees
~Making the COMMITMENT!
Site Review Requests (2)
=========================
1.Tom Ellis
~ http://shopping.internet-marketing-and-services.com
2.Paul Drabble
~http://www.pdrabs.50megs.com
Site Review Responses (4)
=========================
1.Erica Wells
~ http://www.cashmoney.maddsites.com
2.Katheryn Labosky
~ http://www.talentgrid.com/business
3.Erica Wells
~ http://www.cashmoney.maddsites.com
4.Adriana Copaceanu
~ http://www.abcgiftsandbaskets.com
G u e s t A r t i c l e (1)
=========================
1.The Seven "Myths" of Sales Success!
By Len Foley
Joke of the Day
=========================
================== Word from publisher ====================
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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:Tom Falco
Subject:SPAM issue
Many people continue to criticize me about the
spamming issue and I can only wonder why.
First of all, when spam is reported, the sender
is not the person usually taken to task since most
ISP's know the email address is stolen or not
traceable.
The spam message consists of links and phone
numbers and contact information. This is what the authorities look at.
The actual body of the message and its content
is what is being shut down.
The links in the email are the ones that
are looked at by the authorities. So if you
have a website and are promoting an affiliate
program or gambling in your spam message, then
your own ISP is shut down and the affiliate
program usually will shut the spammer down
as well. So the spammer loses his affiliate
and his website.
When a person sells Viagara on line and spams
this, the pharmacy selling the viagra (the
affiliate) shuts the spammer down and if the
spammer has his own website used to push the
affiliate link, then that is shut down, too.
The email is the last thing looked at.
There is no way for spammers to hide even
when they use fake email addresses to spam.
AOL just won a law suit with some porno company
that was using teenagers with AOL accounts
to spam the whole AOL-user list. The teens did not
get into trouble, the end-seller (the porno)
site was the one sued and put out of business.
So please, I beg you all to drop the issue
of stolen email addresses and aliases.
Tom Falco
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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From:Oliver Jackson
Subject:SPAM issue
Good day to all:
It burns me up that so many people complain about spam.Sure
it`s a
nuisance.Sure it takes up our time .
But what are the options for the guy just starting out?
Safe lists? Yeah right .We all know what a joke those are
.Have a
machine send you 1000 emails .
If they find a way to stop spamming (witch we all do to some
degree)you'll see your advertising bills Triple over night.
Trying to legislate spamming would benefit only
the large ISPs.The little guy would get it in the end!
No not in the *** but in his pocket-book.
Stop and think for a minute .If your advertising goes up you
must
raise the price of your products tocover that increase.In some cases you
would become to expensive to buy on the web.End result ?Your out of
business.
The web is a tool .Nothing more nothing less .
Like your telephone it can be used to make sales or whatever.
At&t doesn't say "I own this company so you can`t
advertise to my
subscribers"
Your electric company doesn't say "you have to turn my
electricity off
if you sell after dark and profit from it"
The US post office has been doing it for How long now?
If the post office couldn`t send mass advertising,what would
a stamp
cost everyone?
Use your heads people don't let the millions of dollars spent
by the
big boys to spam your brain with hype about spamm.When you complain about
it aren't you infact selling a position on someone's ISP.Are you therefore
spamming?Where do we draw the line?
Thank you, Oliver Jackson C.E.O.BabyGoodys.com&
HomeMarketing123.com
E-Mail my auto responder if you want to know more about
HomeMarketing123.com
PS "Our Freedom of speech is something we must fight for on a constant
basis or lose it"
comments http://www.adlandpro.com/adlandpost.htm
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============
From:Claire Solt
Subject:SPAM issue
Last time I used a backhanded way of saying I think this Spam obsession is
way out of hand, and I do. I do not have the same problems that Quick tell
and others describe. I do have people who are trying to sell me things,
but I am used to that, as I have lived in the United States for almost 60
years.
I have also been in direct sales since 1986. Here you can get everyone's
address and phone # from a free book called the phone book. Or, one can
buy a city directory which arranges the information in different formats.
Marketers can buy lists and specify the demographics in any community in
the nation. Telephone companies sell lists of new phone numbers and others
comb courthouses for addresses of new movers. some states even sell their
driver's license data to list makers.
You have accused me of Spam and advised me to watch out. What I would like
to tell you is this. The people who got my thank you message with my phone
number appreciated getting it. They all clicked on my signature ad, and
several of them called me. So far, three paid orders have resulted from
under 300 replies.
No complaints, but yours.
When you advise me to watch out, I say to you that you are acting in
restraint of trade and free speech. That, sir, is unconstitutional. When
you say I cannot reply to a message someone sends to me, you are going way
too far.
If you speak to me, I can answer you. If you call me, I can call you back.
If you write me a letter, I may write you back. If you write me an email,
I certainly can respond. Those are the rules of polite discourse.
What kind of business could afford to throw away all of its mail, turn off
their phones, and erase all their messages? What kind of a person would
even advocate that? No court in the land would take your side of this
argument. So don't spank me in public. Please lighten up.
Claire Wheeler Solt PhD
comments http://www.adlandpro.com/adlandpost.htm
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============
From:Dave Weed
Subject:SPAM issue
Hi Frank, Bill, Adrian John, Jack and all Digest readers,
I see so many solutions to "Spam" that it makes me want to slap some
of
the writers silly. There are almost as many "solutions" for spam as
there
are definitions for what really is Spam.
The problem is two fold.
1 SPAM is in the eye of the beholder. Too many systems, blacklists and
ISP's are allowing individual users to "decide" what is or isn't spam
and
report it as such.
2. The ISP's then automatically "punish" the "offender",
often with out
recourse. Whether an actual offence occurred or not. To add insult to
injury many ISP's attempt to "block" spam via an automated system.
This
results in users being unable to receive email they want. I know of one
ISP that blocks all messages with more the one address in the To:, CC: &
Bcc: fields...combined. No sending a message to your brother AND your
sister unless you send each a separate message!
The real problem is that the ISP's in general are too lazy (or too greedy)
to stop spammers at the source. It will take ISP's willing to work at
getting to know WHO they have online and WHAT those customers want to do.
Too many ISP's want to have everything run without them ever having to
have any contact with a customer beyond cash the check.
The ISP's are leaving the responsibility for "handling SPAM" to the
USERS
instead of dealing with it properly themselves.
Of course there is an alternative. You can find an ISP that DOES get to
know the customers, that does eliminate the bad apples that ruin it for
everyone (why do you think AOL dialup is so SLLLLLOOOOOOWWW)...and yes, I
do know where those ISP's are.
Dave Weed
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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:Andy Sparks
Subject:Paid advertising.
Hi Amanda;
The market for banner ads in low to almost nonexistent. The primary
reason for that is that most people completely ignore banners and the
click through rates are extremely low. The banners I run at Adland Pro
average a little over 1% click through and that is far and away higher
than any other banner ad I have ever ran.
I paid $1200 for a month banner ads and some on air mentions with a local
TV station and even with the TV mentions directing people to my banner ad,
I averaged less than a tenth of a percent click through and no sales.
If you read the Adland Digest regularly, You will know that I also
struggle with pricing. I considered switching
http://www.yourrealestateforsale.com
to a free site and serving banners
and third party advertisements but decided against it due to the condition
of the banner ad market.
If you go to Ebay and search around, you can buy a month of banner ads on
a number of sites for a very few dollars.
If I were going to serve banner ads, I would use a bidding process so that
the highest bid banners would display first and when their money ran out,
the next highest bidder's banner would display.
You could charge per click through or per impression, but I am always more
comfortable paying per click. I feel like I received something for my
money.
Andy Sparks
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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From:John Olson
Subject:Ways to promote a small business
Shannon,
I looked over your site and your business, and I think your prices are
good. But I am not a big fan of pop ups in any form. I think most people
click out of them before they fully load, but.... If the right kind of
fast loading site is used, it can work quite well I am told by those who
have tested them.
To promote your business, you have to think of who would most want those
visitors to their sites and go after them. My guess is a big part of your
market would be in the MLM industry. Most of these folks need help getting
traffic to their affiliate sites, and your prices are very reasonable.
So, where do you market to these folks? Go where they all go, Safelists,
Hit Exchanges, Classified Ads and Mostly E-zines. Use Solo Ads and you
should get some response to your offer if you word the ad correctly.
I am sure you will get even more great ideas from the rest of the crew
that replies to this digest. I am tried right now, so my little brain is
not working on all cylinders at the moment.
Take care and good luck,
John Olson
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==============N e w P o s t i n g (1)=============
From:Wendy
Subject:Downloadable products
Hi,
I have just bought the rights to sell a couple of really good ebooks.
They are in Acrobat form and they come with various bonuses, some of which
are MP3. I have never done anything like this before.
Please can you advise me on a simple way of making these available to
buyers, i.e. once they pay they get a limited time password and a link to
download from, which is how I've bought ebooks before.
I don't know where to start to set this up and I can't start marketing
them until I can deliver them!
All advice appreciated!
Wendy
comments http://www.adlandpro.com/adlandpost.htm
==============N e w P o s t i n g (2)=============
From:Mark Chandler
Subject:Just starting out
Just put up my web page on thursday and am trying ways to advertise it in
a smart and efficient way. Have had a few hits a day and wondered what
people have found to be a great way to get hits to the site.
comments http://www.adlandpro.com/adlandpost.htm
==============N e w P o s t i n g (3)=============
From:Scott Kees
Subject:Making the COMMITMENT!
I have been "hem hawing" around about DECIDING TO COMMIT to an online
business adventure. I came across this quote. If you have any other SIMPLE
thoughts about the reality of making the initial COMMITMENT to work a
business online please post to me in return! Especially, I need all the
"moral" {and otherwise} "helpers" to KEEP ON THE TRACK OF
COMMITMENT FROM
THE MARKETING PERSPECTIVE! The FULL quote:
"If you wish in this world to advance, your merits you're bound
to
enhance; You must stir it and stump
it, and blow your own trumpet, or trust me, you haven't a chance." (W.S.
Gilbert)
comments http://www.adlandpro.com/adlandpost.htm
=====================Site Review Request (1)===============
From:Tom Ellis
Subject: http://shopping.internet-marketing-and-services.com
Hello Bogdan:
I have been a subscriber to your news letter for quite some time now and
just wanted to say thanks for the great job. Your news letter is one of
the few that I read top to bottom.
Would you list my site for a review in your next issue. URL:
http://shopping.internet-marketing-and-services.com
Thanks for all your hard work.
Tom Ellis
comments http://www.adlandpro.com/adlandpost.htm
=====================Site Review Request (2)===============
From:Paul Drabble
Subject:http://www.pdrabs.50megs.com
Paul Drabble
Well where to start, as we all know John Olson does always have an opinion
on all things and generally he's around the mark. There are a lot of
programs out there and again it is picking the right one for you. I am a
member of DHS and have been for some time (9 months now), over that time
my dhs has grown but not only through my efforts but also through the
efforts of my upline who have been of great help, now whilst growth has
been consistent it is only now that i am finding the money arriving, it
does take work & i think john also understands that no matter what program
you promote the bottom line is you have to work at it. Some work smarter
than others. That's human nature if you want help feel free to ask just
email me at pdrabs@dodo.com.au also feel
free to look at my site i built
it myself to get away from the premaid look its at
http://www.pdrabs.50megs.com
regards and good luck
Paul Drabble
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=====================Site Review Response (1)===============
From:Erica Wells
Subject: http://www.cashmoney.maddsites.com
Candy, the first thing that jumped out at me about your site was the fact
that I had no idea what it's purpose was. There is no title, no
introduction, no nothing to tell me what you want or what you're offering
me.
There are others here who I'm sure can explain in detail what's missing,
so I won't take up much time. In my opinion you have a lot of work to do.
Why would I go to your site? To get my local weather, to get a recipe, to
do an online search? I can do all that from my AOL welcome page. Give
people a reason to come to your site because as it stands I don't really
see one. Sorry, if I sound harsh but that's just my opinion.
Good luck, Erica
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=====================Site Review Response (2)===============
From:Katheryn Labosky
Subject: http://www.talentgrid.com/business
Hi Amalia. Visited your site and do have a few
comments. Liked the layout and the writing was all
grammatically correct, with no typos or misspellings.
However, it took me until the fourth paragraph to
realize what you were selling. All the talk of a
"Gold Rush" while enlightening perhaps and entertaining
had nothing really to do with the site, which I finally
realized was selling "marketing tools"! I had an
"Ah-Hah" moment there and this is not what you want.
This would frustrate a reader and they would move on
rather quickly. Its also a little too strong and
sounds too "sales-like". Good copy has a fine line
between too much and too little. My company and I write
sales copy for websites all day and everyday, so I am
not in anyway saying this just to be mean. I do believe
that once you fix this problem, putting the reason for
the site somewhere near the top of the sales letter, and
toning it down somewhat, you will see better results.
Our own site has only about 200 visitors a month, but
out of those 200 visitors, about 30-40 contact us and
about 10-20 per month become long-term dedicated
customers, so I do know what I'm saying here. Our
conversion rate is excellent and yours can be too.
Visitors are great, but sales will make or break any
business. Feel free to visit our site, listed below,
and you will see what I mean. We definitely have a
sales letter on the homepage (a rather strong one, in
fact), but it stops at that fine line I've mentioned,
and it states within the first paragraph what we are,
and how we do it.
I wish you the best,
Katheryn Labosky
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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KLR Marketing Services/Written Solutions
http://www.written-solutions.com
kaerae01@hotmail.com
steavie@ptd.net
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=====================Site Review Response (3)===============
From:Erica Wells
Subject: http://www.cashmoney.maddsites.com
Candy, the first thing that jumped out at me about your site was the fact
that I had no idea what it's purpose was. There is no title, no
introduction, no nothing to tell me what you want or what you're offering
me.
There are others here who I'm sure can explain in detail what's missing,
so I won't take up much time. In my opinion you have a lot of work to do.
Why would I go to your site? To get my local weather, to get a recipe, to
do an online search? I can do all that from my AOL welcome page. Give
people a reason to come to your site because as it stands I don't really
see one. Sorry, if I sound harsh but that's just my opinion.
Good luck, Erica
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=====================Site Review Response (4)===============
From:Adriana Copaceanu
Subject: http://www.abcgiftsandbaskets.com
John and Andy, thank you kindly for your response to my website review.
John, I moved the "About Us" button on the first fold of the page. You
are
asking where I get my traffic from: mostly from Google and Yahoo, AOL,
DMOZ, and some smaller search engines. I also get some traffic from a
couple of gift basket directories I belong to.
As you suggested, I sometimes hang out in message boards (maybe not as
much as I should), I have information on my email signature, I belong to
the local Chamber of Commerce, and I periodically send out flyers with 10%
off coupon included. I guess I should keep doing what I am doing now, and
should start seeing more results soon.
Andy, I hope the one sale per 700 visitors is wrong. I know in direct
mail, if you get 1-2% response you are doing good, and I hope that web
sales are comparable.
You suggest creating a search engine optimized web
page for each item that I have for sale. I have a few, and I like the
idea: I will dedicate more time to doing this as soon as the holiday
season is over, since even if I do it now, it won't benefit me for this
season.
Here is an example: http://www.abcgiftsandbaskets.com/valentine.htm
Now, this a page dedicated to Valentine's Day, but I am not sure it's
optimized very well: do you have any suggestions, other that more text (I
know I have to work on that).
Again, thank you to both of you for your help.
Adriana Copaceanu
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ABC Gifts and Baskets
Remember them, so they'll remember you.
http://www.abcgiftsandbaskets.com
Toll Free 866-740-8678
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=====================G u e s t A r t i c l e
(1)===============
The Seven "Myths" of Sales Success!
ByLen Foley
It's no secret: Most sales professionals are
unhappier and unhealthier than ever before.
Why? Because they're operating in hostile,
unwelcome selling environments where many
of their customers are out for blood!
There's no denying it: The average consumer is
bombarded with more sales messages than ever
before: billboards, radio commercials, TV, magazines,
the list goes on.
And whether you're a small business owner, retail clerk,
dentist, lawn care specialist, chiropractor, hairdresser,
CPA, or door-to-door magazine salesperson, there's
something you need to know:
Yesterday's sales training no longer applies to today's
fast-paced environment. What once worked for your
predecessors won't work for you!
In fact, some sales trainers promise results that can't
be delivered in any 21st century selling environment.
If you're planning on investing in any new programs,
at least know what you're getting yourself into...
Here are a few "myths" you DON'T want to learn in any
new program:
Myth #1: You need to be a "good talker"
Otherwise known as the blabbermouth syndrome.
Blabbermouths don't sell; they merely annoy people
into handing over their money.
They assume if they can fill every second of silence
with useless (or useful) chatter about how great their
products are---then every objection in the prospect's
mind will magically disappear.
This isn't selling; it's irritating.
Anytime a salesperson is talking, the client is formulating
objections. That's just the way the human mind works.
Anytime a salesperson is listening, the client is probably
still formulating objections...but at least the salesperson
will have an idea about what those objections might be.
Myth #2: You need to be a "good listener"
Most salespeople are good listeners...but good at listening
for what THEY want to hear!
If you say to a salesperson: "I really want to buy your product..."
Chances are they'll hear every word.
But if you say to that same salesperson: "Oh, I've changed my
mind...I don't want to buy this product." You'll suddenly notice
their eyes glazing over as they hear something completely different
than the words that came out of your mouth.
Many sales trainers teach their students to ignore objections
and to listen instead for psychological "hooks" or
"openings"
that the prospect may either verbally or non-verbally pass along.
The salesperson is then taught to use these hooks to manipulate
or cajole the prospect into buying what he or she has to offer.
Does this approach work? Of course it works.
It's worked for hundreds of years with interrogators and psychological
bullies.
Does it work over a long-term relationship with your client?
That's something every professional salesperson should be asking
themselves.
Myth #3: You need to have a lot of self-confidence
You only need a lot of self-confidence when you don't know what
you're selling.
If you "think" you're selling a food dehydrator or an insurance
package or cars...well, then, of course you need a lot of confidence.
(It takes confidence selling anything you can't really sell).
Once you know what you're really selling and gain some skill
in selling it over and over again, you'll never even consider
needing any confidence...you'll just BE confident.
Myth #4: You need the ability to quickly size people up
An old teacher of mine once said:
"The fool is a master at judging other people and only the
wise man is a master at judging himself."
If you spend most of your time searching for your prospect's
weakness and then exploit it to your own advantage, you
may end up making the transaction, but there's no way in the
world you'll ever make any sales.
Myth #5: You need to "dominate" your prospect
You probably know when you're being manipulated or lied to...
most people have a sixth sense for this kind of treatment.
Some sales professionals think they can fool their prospects
with charm, flattery, and dramatic appeal, but these behaviors
only mask the underlying motivation behind every word the
salesperson utters.
Kierkegaard said: "A fool can always find a bigger fool who
admires him." But there is no bigger fool than the salesperson
who manipulates and strong-arms his prospects.
Most people are smart, they're not tricked by "covert" forms of
subtle-persuasion. It doesn't matter how clever or disguised you
think these kinds of strategies are: traditional sales methods send
up an immediate red flag in the mind of every prospect you see.
Myth #6: You need to be one step ahead of your prospect
Here's a short dictum to keep in mind:
Anytime you're one step ahead of your prospect...
...your prospect has fallen twenty steps behind you.
Myth #7: You need special credentials
Some people will waste four years at a university getting
a fancy degree in sales and still not know how to sell.
Think about it: Entering an expensive university program
won't make you a salesperson anymore than entering a
music store will make you a musician.
The only credential you need for sales is the knowledge of
what you're selling.
When you know what you're selling and possess the specific
skills of selling it over and over again---credentials or not---you'll
know how to make the sale!
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If you'd like to learn how to *effortlessly* convert 25-30% more
prospects into PAYING CUSTOMERS, check out my Free Report:
"How Any Ordinary Business Professional Can Turn Into An Unstoppable
Selling Machine!" http://www.nosuckersales.com
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comments http://www.adlandpro.com/adlandpost.htm
=====================Joke of the Day (1)===============
NEW COMPANY POLICIES
SICKNESS AND RELATED LEAVE:
We will no longer accept a doctor's statement as proof of sickness.
If you are able to go to the doctor, you are able to come to work.
SURGERY:
Operations are now banned. As long as you are an employee here you
need all your organs. You should not consider removing anything. We hired
you intact. To have something removed constitutes a breach of employment.
BEREAVEMENT LEAVE:
This is no excuse for missing work. There is nothing you can do for
dead friends, relatives or coworkers. Every effort should be made to have
non-employees attend to the arrangements. In rare cases, where employee
involvement is necessary, the funeral should be scheduled in the late
afternoon. We will allow you to work through your lunch hour and
subsequently leave one hour early.
YOUR OWN DEATH:
This will be accepted as an excuse. However, we require at least two
weeks notice, as it is your duty to train your replacement.
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