A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of  25,600 subscribers
                     on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                                      contact at
                      Vol. 1 issue #333  Feb, 23, 2003

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Topics in this issue:

Sponsor Message
Word from Publisher
1.Advice from Me to You

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (11)

1.So many programs, so little time
~John Olson

2.Mis- leading information
~John Olson
~William Jaroske
~Robert Lee

3.Threats to the Online Marketer
~Seqkat  >^..^<

4.Text versus HTML ezines
~Tom Falco
~Amalia Sotiriadou
~Holly Klaus

5.Internet Business Club
~Andy Sparks
~Robert Lee

6.Click Bank or any mall.
~Andy Sparks

7.What Are You Doing As An Ezine Publisher?
~George Aune

~Doug Steinke

~William Jaroske
~Robert Lee

10.Never ever pay again for website promotion
~Robert Lee

11.Email Marketing (Harvesting of email addresses)
~Cathy Wagner

N e w     P o s t s  (4)

1.Steve Hartung
~Paypal ordered to stop processing MLM accounts!

2.Rebecca Beasley
~My Story

3.John Leir
~AdlandPro is a really important source of information

4.Geoff Reid
~Long road to Success

Site Review Requests   (1)

1.Donna Fulton

Site Review Responses   (1)

1. Andy Sparks

G u e s t   A r t i c l e    (0)

Joke of the Day

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome  350 new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.


I would like to thank Doug Appleby who put together last Adland Digest
issue at such a short notice while I was away.

I also thank everybody who sent me their condolences and words of

I found out that I have many friends whom I never met.
These few words are so much in moments like this particularly that
we never met in person.

Bogdan Fiedur

=================Advice from Me to You=====================
From:John Olson

Adland Digest is truly one of the best News Letters on the Web. And with
all the posts lately about joining programs and getting no where. I
thought I would pass some advice along to all of you.

We are all looking for something, we keep joining this thing and that
thing in the hopes that one of them will be the one that sets us free at
last. That for once, all the Hype and Promises on the Website will be

We are greedy, we believe the Hype because we want to believe it.

Unfortunately most of the time it the Hype on an Opportunity Website is
just that, Hype, carefully worded to get Us to Spend Our Money and Join,
with the Hopes of Finally Making all the Money so many sites we see

When we fail and drop out, we place the blame on the Program. We call it a
scam, or the owners cheats and liars. We tell ourselves that it was
anyone's fault but our own. When in fact, most of the time it was our

We joined for the wrong reasons. We joined for the Money.

Here is one peace of advice that I want to give you.

Never join something just for the Money.

That's right, don't join for the Money. Join for the Product or Service.
If you can't see a value in what the program is offering, how can you
stand behind it?

You must want the Product or Service, you Must Use it.

Now, some people I have read, talk about the Product not being important.
That it doesn't matter what the Product or Service is, that we can learn
to sell anything with enough training.

Sad truth, most of us couldn't sell Ice in a Desert.

We need to be excited about the Product or Service to sell it. We need to
use it and love it. The more excited we can get about a Product, the
better we will write about it, the better we will talk about it. The more
we will be able to sell it.

The Super Salesmen don't need to read this, they are doing all right. But
the rest of us Must. Look for Programs with Products or Services you want,
you need, you will use.

Along these lines, watch out for programs that only stress the Money end
and not the Product or Service. They are one step away from failing.


Because as the Program grows and more and more people Join, it will be
harder and harder for new members to find sign ups. If they are only in
for the Cash and the Cash is not coming or not coming fast enough, they
will drop out. Then the ones above them will start losing Money and they
will drop out and so on up the line until the Program dies.

The only people who really make money in a Program that is Marketed only
for the money you can make, will be the ones who started it and the ones
who joined first. Everyone else will lose money or hardly break even.

Never Join anything because of what someone promises you will happen
because of who is above you or who is behind it. If you don't need or want
what the Program is offering, you will not do well, and the promises
almost always go unfulfilled.

If you join a Program because you want the Product or Service, it doesn't
matter if you make money or not, or how long it takes to break even, you
will stay a member and keep using the Product. If you market with the
Product in mind, the members who join with you will stay too, for the same

The Program will grow and stand a much better chance of lasting and making
you money in the long run. And that is what we all want.

I have joined things in the past for the wrong reasons. I believed the
Hype, I was fooled into spending time and/or money on something I didn't
really want, need or believe in. I have dropped Programs I no longer can
get excited about, even if I was earning money with them. If someone
called me or wrote me and wanted to know about the program, what could I
do? Lie, and tell them it was great and I loved it. I can't do that. And
you shouldn't either.

When something like that happens, it's time to drop the Program and move
on. I have learned from my mistakes and I am trying to keep you from
making the same ones.

Look for Programs with Products or Services you want to have and the money
will follow.  Don't believe the Hype, believe in yourself.

John Olson

It's Your Money. It's Your Time.


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:John Olson
Subject:So many programs, so little time


You are trying and that is something. But after looking over your site, I
can see why people have not jumped at the chance to be a part of it.

You need to organize it better. You have good navigation links at the top,
but then when I click on most of them, I get a second set of navigation
links to have to work with. And then a third and sometimes a fourth.

Your "Opportunities" Link for example makes me go through several pages
just to get to one with some information about a program. That is WAY to
much clicking. You have to redesign the links and navigation on this site
and make it easier for people to find what they want.

Also, Please stop centring everything. It is not only bad form, but is a
sure sign of an amateur. I see that you are going to launch a new site
soon and I hope it will be better designed. In the mean time, you are
loosing people because this one is so hard to get around in.

Here is a suggestion, build a new page, A Site Map or Directory or
something like that. A page where visitors can see all the pages that are
on the site and find what they are looking for.

If you really want to help people, then start writing articles about what
to look for, what kinds of things not to get involved with and general
advice. I know you are also building a mailing list, but give some samples
of your thoughts on the state of online businesses.

Want some ideas, visit my TGIF Marketing site and read through the pages

Good luck with the new site.

John Olson

It's Your Money. It's Your Time.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:John Olson
Subject:Mis- leading information


I feel for you. There is an awful lot of garbage out there and it's very
hard to weed through it all. It would be nice if there were such a rating
system we could go to, but I am afraid if there were a site like that, it
would be constantly out of date, and full of gossip and rumors. Wait, I
know of a Scam site like that....

In truth, there are sites that can offer you some kind of help, or at
least places were you can ask questions and get answers from people who
have been at this a long time and are making money at it. One of these
places is an online message board that I like to read through when I am
doing a search on a program for someone.

It's MLM at:

You can register for free and as long as you follow the rules for posting,
you can get a lot of good advice and many of your questions answered. Here
are some more forums and message boards you can check out:

Of course as with any message board, some will be better then others, and
you will get both gossip and people who are trying to promote whatever
they are in, so watch yourself.

Maybe you can start your own thread on one of them with "Programs to Stay
away from."

Good luck, and don't jump on things just because of the money promised.
Find good programs that offer products or services you want and will use
and stick with them, don't be bouncing from one to another and you will be
better off.

If you want, take my free marketing course at:

Take care,

John Olson

It's Your Money. It's Your Time.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From:William Jaroske
Subject:Mis- leading information

Hi Bogdan,

On reading the last few issues of this digest. It is so tragic that people
have to totally lose it because of all the conning, scamming, hyping and
join my program go around. That's outrageous!

Murph mentions that all these people get taken in on all this con jobs the
this hypers are doing. Since Murph is on SSD. Where did he get the $4,000
to spend and don't tell me he was saving his pennies because that is
impossible. That's so outrageous!

George Martin said
"I've been trying all sorts of solo ads, traffic generators, ezines and


Try some local advertising like your town paper, make some brochures up or
better yet buy some business cards advertising your site. Get out and talk
to people.

Holly said
"Too many people quit too soon because of money invested is quite small.
And too much hype out there creates the idea that you should be
independently wealthy in 3 months"


Why are you telling people just give it a year and then go on saying don't
give up. This seem you are giving us double talk. That's outrageous!

And why is your site are you saying a
business is easy. That's outrageous!

Gary Kidd said
"Get your own site, build a list, work on building your list and that is

You left out a bunch a stuff. Why are these people getting focused with
lists. Believe me, that' only part of your tasks of your internet
business. This idea of is a small fraction of what I know.

People are just too much in tune if lists. people are too much in tune to
mass amounts of advertising on the web. People get too much into hyping
because they are taught to  by the hypes. That's so outrageous. That's

William Jaroske

Worth while internet opportunities


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From:Robert Lee
Subject:Mis- leading information

Amalia Sotiriadou how wrong you are!

Just what exactly are you suggesting? People start an "out of the blue"
MLM to scam their family and friends? Scam even people that they don't

QUOTE: I realize that this is not the fast track to riches and it may take
some time before people will trust you enough to invest their hard earned
in your opp, but it's the only sure way of getting there.

Just what type of "opp" are you suggesting?
Geesh... just when I thought I have heard it all...Recommending that they
have a newsletter is a great idea... as long as they have content. And a
regular publishing date.
What happened to yours ?

BTW... interesting quote on your web page "Spamming this address will be
prosecuted to the full extent of the law!" Isn't this one of the MLM'ers
first tenets? Send out email to my fellow marketers?

BTW again... why don't the links on the left side of the page work

Only $8.75 for .COM! The cheapest anywhere for registrations! $5.95 for
US $5.95 for .BIZ
Robert Lee


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From:Seqkat  >^..^<
Subject:Threats to the Online Marketer

Hey Tammie,

I have been just that - a victim to a tyrannous email
to an entire list - that was a lie.  I even had an outside
source, my bank to prove an error that was made by
the owner who bad mouthed me - and proved it to
him, and asked for a public apology.  All I received
was a vicious reply - and of course no public apology
to his error.

As terrible and heart wrenching of an ordeal that was
something better came from it.  In all my work, I do
my best to help others - and that paid off.  When others
heard what happened to me, they quit that program that
owner had, and left money on the table to do so - and
they rushed to my rescue and help spread a simple
message - not one to defame the person who lied about me
- but to spread a message of honesty and integrity.  I didn't
want to hurt him, who had hurt me, but I wanted to share
with others, that honesty and integrity, was their best
their choice for their business.  This was a rather large
number of people who helped me!

Your true character will prevail - so just remain honest
and true, and believe me - it will work out.  Keep the
faith and don't let fear hamper you.  Chock it up as
one bad day, as you suggested - not the end of your
business.  Your truth will prevail.

Hope this helps!  Keep the faith, and keep at it!

"He (Jesus) sent two of His disciples, saying,
'Go ye into the Village'..." Luke 19:29-30


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From:Tom Falco
Subject:Text versus HTML ezines

Merle brought up an interesting topic in last issue.
Text versus HTML ezines.

I brought up the subject with my readers about a year
or so ago and the response was overwhelmingly in favor
of text versions. But it seems that it is also important
to have an HTML on-line version. Not an HTML email

With many email accounts there is an indication that
there is an attachment, which will show up when an
HTML ezine is sent out. Many people will not even open
an email with an attachment. They are trying to avoid
viruses. So your ezine will not be read by many
subscribers if it is sent in HTML format.

Most readers said they liked the convenience of text.

We do offer an HTML on-line version and the link is
given in our text transmission. If readers prefer
to go on line and read the ezine with all its color,
photos and extras, they have that option.

It is more work for me, but I guess that is the way
it has to be.

Tom Falco

"Free ezine Ad Swaps! Join today."
Turn that unwanted ad space into a trade or barter.
or visit:


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.2)=============
From:Amalia Sotiriadou
Subject:Text versus HTML ezines

Good question... I thought a lot about that when I was starting out my own
ezine. Text is simple to handle, easy to write, small to send and usual
accepted by most ISP servers.
They say that it's the content that counts, don't they? Yet of all the
*.txt ezines I have ever seen, AdLand Pro is probably the only one I have
ever sat down to read for more than a couple of times.
Most every *.txt ezine looks like every other and I can't differentiate
between them.
Then in comes HTML. You may dislike HTML for reasons of your own, but you
can't really ignore it. The color alone, grabs you. There is a blue ezine
I like, and a grayish - white one that I know has good content, a
purple/white one that looks snappy and has some good articles some
You see what I am getting at? With HTML you have color coding. I don't
need to remember the ezine's name to know if I like it or not, I recognize
it immediately.
So... I decided to make an HTML e-zine. I dusted off my Front Page
program, and started playing with it. When I made a mess of things I went
to a relative that knew a bit more than I did and together we made the
master format of my ezine. After that, it became a simple matter of
changing the content every week.
I began (and still am doing so) by using my own ISP and the Group Free
Mailer to send my ezine. Now that it is getting a lot bigger in terms of
subscribers, I am thinking of moving it to an autoresponder that sends
HTML. That will manage my database as well, and I can prepare issues ahead
of time in case I want to take a short vacation.

Amalia Sotiriadou



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.3)=============
Subject:Text versus HTML ezines

Hey Merle,

I like HTML ezines - they look better.  They look professional
and can display the personality of the publisher.  As a publisher
I like sharing my personality, (namely my fondness for cats), of
which I enjoy as well my subscribers.

But many subscribers can't receive HTML emails, so I send out
a plain text inbox reminder that the ezine is ready online,
and do my HTML presentation at my website, and just send
them the link.  This helps too get around a lot of spam filters.

As a subscriber, (one who is fortunate that can receive HTML
emails), I like the HTML ezines too - again - they look better
and I enjoy the display again of the publishers.

Hope this voice, or should I say *meow* back to you, helps!

God bless!

In His Joy,
Seqkat  >^..^<


"He (Jesus) sent two of His disciples, saying,
'Go ye into the Village'..." Luke 19:29-30


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.4)=============
From:Holly Klaus
Subject:Text versus HTML ezines

Hi Merle,

Part of the answer to that depends on who your market is. Remember many
countries do not have the infrastructure some more developed countries
have. Think of what it is like waiting for some large programs to be
downloaded over the net. Now think if you had to wait for that to happen
just to open a piece of mail. That is the way it would be for some in some
countries if you send them html. What this means is, they never see it. No
one wants to wait, even if it will ever come across their server to begin
with, which it may not.

So if you are interested in a World Wide Market. Be sure to use text. Or
offer both.

I remember a member I have from India telling me how he has to use a
"Cyber Cafe" to run his Internet biz. He pays for his time in a "cafe"
setting where people rent the space to be on the Internet. How much time
will they be willing to pay for your ezine.... keep it simple, so it can
download FAST. You will have a broader range of world wide subscribers, IF
that is your market.

I think it is very important to publish in a text format. If you have html
too fine.

Kind Regards,
Holly Klaus

The ONE thing you must have to be a success.
Fast, fun, free training! 5 days, 5 emails, don't miss it.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)=============
From:Andy Sparks
Subject:Internet Business Club

Hi Laurence,

Thanks for your thoughts about my Internet Business Club.  I am currently
ranked number 180 of 11,177 affiliates of Adland pro and you never have or
ever will hear or see me do anything to damage Adland Pro or this Digest.

I have absolutely no intention of building an Adland clone.  I was looking
to flesh out some ideas.  It is very helpful to have a place to throw out
ideas and see if they fly or bounce.

I think about all the frustration I felt while trying to build traffic and
make sales in the beginning and I know I can help people avoid that

But things move quickly on the Internet and I have narrowed the focus of
my Internet Club.  Because selling real estate is what I do for a living,
I have decided to aim the Internet Club at helping Realtors who have or
thinking about building a web site, improve their Internet presence.

I always tell people to focus their Internet business and build their web
pages about something they already know.  I was guilty of not taking my
own advice.

I am not going to limit the membership to Realtors only, because the
techniques are valid for any Internet business.  The techniques are not
good for get rich quick schemes but valid for building traffic and sales.

The community software is up and running on my domain.  It
doesn't have it's own domain just yet because I am still fleshing it out
and I haven't opened up the pro membership.  It is only free membership at
the moment and doesn't have much content but the site seems to operate
just fine.

You can look at it if you like and I would be open to positive or negative
feedback but remember it isn't done by a longshot.

I am calling it the Realtor's Internet Community.  Yes, Realtor is a
trademark but I am a member of the National Association of Realtors (NAR)
and have the right to use the Realtor trademark.

Andy Sparks

Buy, Sell or rent Real Estate on the Internet


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.2)=============
From:Robert Lee
Subject:Internet Business Club

I have to agree with Laurence Lowne about not diluting your efforts.
It's easy to fall prey of thinking you are able to do something better
than the next person. And if you can, by all means go to it.
Just don't take the wind out of someone else's sails.
If you have a good idea, run with it.
I have made a few people some money through my Dating B2B site, but it's
not for everyone, I respect that.
But I don't want to be the "be all" and "end all" of the topic, there's
just too much to stay on top of and this site is just one part of my
overall success. And the success of others.

The Business Internet is full of Doers, Planners and Wishers.
Which one are you?

Robert Lee

Only $8.75 for .COM! The cheapest anywhere for registrations! $5.95 for
US $5.95 for .BIZ


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (6.1)=============
From:Andy Sparks
Subject:Click Bank or any mall.

The Internet needs another mall, like I need to gain a few pounds.  The
mall concept sounds good but I don't believe it works.  When someone
arrives at your mall, their are to many things to look at and to much to
see so, they leave without buying anything.

In order for a mall to work, it requires massive traffic and the average
person just can't build to that level of traffic.

I like clickbank, I use them for I
currently pay 75% commission for real estate ad sales.

If you want to make effective use of clickbank, build a web site about a
subject that you know or at least can write about without making a fool of
yourself.  Go to clickbanl marketplace and pick some products or services
that fit the theme of your web site.  Write a page about something related
to your subject and casually mention the product or service and provide
your affiliate link to that product or services page.

The operative word is casual, don't make a sales pitch because they are
going to get a sales pitch when they arrive at the product site and
overselling kills sales.  Just something like if you want more information
click here.  If you have provided good information on the page, they will
be inclined to follow your lead about the product and if it matches your
subject matter or offers something that people interested in what your
page was about would need, you are way ahead of the game and your sales
results will improve.

The subject matter of the page gets their attention, the quality of the
information builds their trust and the natural flow from the subject at
hand to a closely related product or service makes them a more likely

If you want to use clickbank for selling your services, or earn
commissions for referring sales, please follow this link,

If you had a mall, I would tell you to build another web site with search
engine optimized pages for each of your products and lead the visitors
directly to the sales page and completely by-pass the whole mall concept

Andy Sparks

Satisfied ClickBank Seller


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (7.1)=============
From:George Aune
Subject:What Are You Doing As An Ezine Publisher?

Trust me....this response is NOT only for Cheryl, but for ALL Ezine
Publishers AND subscribers!

Dear Fellow Publisher.......AN URGENT MESSAGE FOLLOWS!!

You've been hearing and reading about Habeas and what impact it appears it
might have on us doing business online.

A new group, Online Marketing Professionals United Against Censorship
(OMPUAC) is forming to "fight the good fight!"

This organization is gathering numbers (you) and money (donations) to
fight for our rights.

OMPUAC's "slogan" Fighting Habeas Through Marketing Excellence, Legal
Precedence, and United Efforts.

I invite you to check out this site created by Michael Yost of Megalists
(and a fellow publisher).

As stated on the website:

IF you do NOTHING....and leave without may as well either
get out your BIG checkbook or call your Internet Service Provider and
cancel your account BECAUSE you will soon be out of Business on the

The Habeas website is located at:
to help you make an informed decision.

George Aune

Victory Business Holdings Publications


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (7.2)=============
Subject:What Are You Doing As An Ezine Publisher?

Hi, I was reading a past issue, with lots of good info on getting past
spam filters. As an ezine publisher myself, I found it to be very useful

I`m working on some new articles right now, pertaining to spam filters and
spam emails, so I`m doing quite a bit of research. Here`s a spam checker I
found that`s real quick and simple to use:
It gives you a quick summary as soon as you`ve tested your mail, and it
sends you a mail with more info.

Hope this can be of help to you all.


p.s. Any reviews of my site would be greatly appreciated, see sigfile for

Win FREE Solos, Group Mailings and Top Sponsor Ads. FREE downloads every


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (8.1)=============
From:Doug Steinke

Cristian Ionica in #332 writes:

I've come across a new payment system which is similar
to PayPal but MUCH better...

I fell for the hype too but I would like to caution people to "look before
you leap into this program".

I signed up as an affiliate and when I went to fund my account I got a
rude awakening.

First when i went to deposit $10 from my credit card
I entered 10 in the box for $10.

then when I submitted the deposit came out as $100.

It was a multiple of 10 that they wanted.

It was there I just didn't see it.

So I thought no big deal I still have it in my account anyway.

That is till I was able to see the balance the next day.

There was only $88.50 showing in my account.

They charged me 10% plus $1.50 just to deposit money.

Their splash page had a link to the fees, the highest of which was 3.9%.
But there had been a transitional page that apparently said 10%.

Sorry but paying 10% plus a fee, just for taking my money is more than i
can stomach.

When I complained to support I was just told to read more carefully and
they would not refund my money.

I told them I would get a reversal from my credit card company so they
froze my account... supposedly for fraud.

This was one of Stormpays big selling points..that they wouldn't freeze an
account (except for fraud) as PayPal had been known to do.

So there I was out $100 US ($157 CAD), with a frozen
account and being ladled a fraud artist.

My credit card company did come through and reverse the charge but it sure
leaves a bad taste in one's mouth... knowing that I placed some links to
their program on my site and that others may have been bitten too.

To them I must apologize...I should have know better when I noticed that
Stormpay is located offshore in the West Indies.

Doug Steinke



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (9.1)=============
From:William Jaroske

Well, here we go again.

John said,
Quote" And I don't totally trash someone for building a free site on
Tripod, unless its a bad site. " end quote

I really don't know the reason why your trying to drag Sharon- Bray
McPearson into this. has nothing to do on what
I'm applying about. Let go back to last year in archives issue 318 where
you reviewed

Then issue 323 where you reviewed

Then said,
"As for my comment about CCI, I was over the top with that, just to make a
point. I guess I made it."

Well you didn't make a point. It was just more babble talk that I get
every day from get rich quickers, lazy people, and the dream stealers

You of all people. You webmasters have gotten so arrogant telling people
they won't make it unless they have domains and paid hosting. I am not
just blasting you but all webmasters that get into this such warped kind
of thinking That you have made some kind of immense dictatorship. That's

You ezine owners and newsletter publishers give that same song and dance
along with a slew of rhetoric. Telling people they won't make money
unless they start their own ezine. Saying you have to make a list, work on
your list and your in the clear. What outrageous rhetoric.

It has become a huge diluted sales pitch and is becoming a great epidemic.
Where these webmasters, ezine owners developed a pompous attitude that
they start becoming a dictatorship. You think I should start an ezine
because you say so. And if I don't start an ezine, You have the audacity to
tell me I won't succeed ever because I don't have an ezine or publish a
news letter. Well that is such flipping rhetoric that I heard in my
entire life. I am surprised nobody had a melt down because of this.

Since the domain issue gets rehashed over and over again. I am amazed that
people fall for this arrogant lifestyle. They tell me that people with out
domains are not to be trusted. What about people who have domains and paid
hosting, who then join the schemes that are most quackery to list on there
site, salt-n-peppering their site with a bunch of scams. And they think
that they have a domain, paid hosting. They will be automatically trusted.
That's out and out, outrageous. That's outrageous.

Its outrageous to the very core. I would suggest people get some common
sense. alot of common sense.

William Jaroske

WJ Business opportunities & Internet self employment resources


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (9.2)=============
From:Robert Lee

Quote: As for my comment on Robert Lee being anti MLM, I have to say, that
is the tone he presents almost every time he writes about an MLM program.
Do I
really have to go back in the Adland Archives for examples?
End Quote

John, I am not "Anti-MLM". I am against programs that have little success
of working because they lack a saleable product and their whole "business"
works because of recruitment instead of product sales.
That is what I am against. (As well as just plain bad products too... of

If you decide to promote such things, then I have the right to protest.

Is this plain enough for you? Or did you skip over those things as well,
the things that I've been saying here for the last 3+ years?

As far as hosting... I do know what I talk about. And if someone decides
to pay for hosting at Tripod, so be it. They still rate as a "free hosting
site" and will still lose out because of the simple fact that should that
person with a tripod hosted site ever decide to start a newsletter, the
odds of being named as a spammer have risen dramatically. And such hosted
sites also are not as well or frequently spidery.

I advice anyone to NEVER Join something just for the MONEY. Read this
piece on my Marketing Course Site:

John, have you actually finally come around? Or is your conscious getting
the better of you, so this article is posted to alleviate it?

I take that back... since the article is NOT linked from your home page,
you have NOT changed your tone.

Robert Lee

Only $8.75 for .COM! The cheapest anywhere for registrations! $5.95 for
US $5.95 for .BIZ
Robert Lee



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (10.1)=============
From:Robert Lee
Subject:Never ever pay again for website promotion

Hey Andy Sparks, thanks for backing me up, ever so eloquently.

It really riles me when people suggest you can promote your website for
nothing, make money with absolutely no investment, then they go ahead and
show that their success has led them elsewhere.

You need your own domain name and you need your own professionally hosted
web site. Any popup windows that occur should happen because YOU make
them happen!
Any complaints you get because you advertise a particular product, YOU
should bear some of the responsibility for resolving them.

It's just all too easy to copy and paste some code... crawl for addresses
and send a message... send out emails... Then "duck and cover" when the
program you promote turns out to be "not so worthwhile after all" and just
shrug your shoulders, walk away and don't reply to the emails you now get
from what used to be your downline, your referrals, your friends.

Luckily, the law in the US will soon allow for you to sue someone that
promotes a program that turns out to be a scam. Even if they are only an
affiliate of that program, not a manager or owner.

All you "copy and paste" promoters out there... yes you, with the web site
that says you've made $24,000 in the last 3 months, but you haven't. YOU
will be held liable. You will be held accountable.
You will be shut down and your assets forfeited.

You've been warned.
Sorry this turned into a rant... but I sure feel better!

Robert Lee


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (11.1)=============
From:Cathy Wagner
Subject:Email Marketing (Harvesting of email addresses)


I apologize for what might seem like an oversight, but if your advice sounded
like 'Go ahead and trawl for email addresses' to me, you can be sure it sounded
that way to lots of beginners who are looking for a way around what seems like a
lot of work.

I did read your whole message and the truth is, even with your small bit about
the business proposal (which sounded like a disclaimer to me), I thought to
myself,  "Hey! It's cool! I can trawl for email addresses! I have a legitimate
business proposal! I am a legitimate business person! If the big boys are doing
it, then so can I! All Right!" This is what I was objecting to: the idea of
thousands of newbies rushing out to start trawling for email addresses so they
can send out their legitimate business proposals.

Now that you mention it, what exactly do you mean by "As long as you have a
legitimate business proposal to offer the webmaster, then this is not SPAM. If
you just mail them with an ad, then it is SPAM." Afterall, we all feel we have
legitimate business proposals. Is only business related SPAM ok?

Maybe you are talking about those obvious "I saw your web site, maybe you would
like to join my biz opp" emails? Those are SPAM, no matter what you think. They
boil down to: "I saw your business, how would you like a business." They are
full of crap just like those trawlers I mentioned in my last reply, who try to
tell me that they have my password retrieval address as a result of my using it
to place ads.

There is only one definition of SPAM, Gary and that is unsolicited commercial
email, pure and simple. The trawling of web sites for email "leads" not only
contributes to the problem of SPAM, but in many cases, it is a waste of time
that can involve more risk than most of us are prepared to deal with.

Many new businesses get shut down long before their small business owner even
learns how to write an effective ad. They just annoyed the wrong person on the
wrong day; someone who woke up to find 100 emails in their account and totally
flipped. Don't laugh, I have seen it happen.

Trawling web sites for email addresses can become an expensive lesson in
futility too easily. Beginners are best advised to use safelists and other forms
of free online advertising until they have learned how to get people to their
web site, otherwise they are just throwing their money away.

You say, "I publish an Ezine and without some of the legitimate proposal's I get
each day, it would take me much longer to find some real good products." I am
guessing that your best business proposals come from people who receive your
ezine and are actually familiar with your site, rather than from you reading and
examining your SPAM. I know mine do. Do you really want to encourage every
beginner to trawl for email addresses and send you all of their ads?

Maybe you could consider, more carefully, how you word your advice in a public
discussion, especially when you know it is a hot topic and you are taking the
less popular view. If you had placed more emphasis on your legitimate business
proposal point and explained it in more detail, as I suspect you will now do,
there would have been less confusion and no need for my reply.

Have a Profitable Day,

Cathy Wagner


ONE STOP Internet Business Services
Your ONE STOP for high quality marketing
information, tips and recommendations.



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==============N e w P o s t i n g  (1)=============
From:Steve Hartung
Subject:Paypal ordered to stop processing MLM accounts!

PayPal, the worlds largest MLM payment processor, built a 25 million
member subscriber base using MLM.

You may or may not know this but PayPal, has been ordered by Visa and
MasterCard to stop processing transactions that involve MLM or risk
losing their merchant account. This is why 1000's of MLM affiliate
programs are being systematically dropped by PayPal.

This development has opened the door for a new universal online
payment system called StormPay. STORM PAY is MLM Friendly...Unlike
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Take advantage of this opportunity today!
Thank you for your time and consideration.
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Steve Hartung


==============N e w P o s t i n g  (2)=============
From:Rebecca Beasley
Subject:My Story

I can definitely vouch for the free affiliate programs being difficult to
ever make money with. I still haven't made a dime yet with them and I've
been doing this for five years. I don't count it as a loss however because
I haven't spent any money either, so I guess I should just say that I
should have found one good one and paid my way in when I had the chance.
But hey! Who says I would have made money if I had done that! I hear all
the time that people spend hundreds of dollars a year for hosting fees and
downline builders, mlm scams and everything they see that comes along and
promises a fast buck. And I have learned a lot by choosing not to spend
money on this stuff. I've seen a lot of programs come and go and I've seen
a lot of programs that I would have given my eye tooth to have the money
to get into. And yes its been a struggle don't get me wrong and I realize
that if I had spent this time in college I would at least have a
bachelor's degree by now. But guess what I do have! I have something that
no one will ever be able to take from me. I have the ability to advise
other people on some of the best programs and exactly what to do to get
into them and get them going strong. I may have not done this myself, but
I have read all the books and have enough in my head to show someone else
how to do it. And I still choose not to pay even now because I know that
one day all my efforts will pay off. I've been building a strong downline
through the years and I have people who trust me and believe in what I do,
and helping people is rewarding me in ways that give me satisfaction that
money can't buy. I would rather give away my secrets and see someone else
be successful than to be successful myself and be too greedy and be too
greedy to help someone else. Because somewhere down the road it will all
come back around. It always does. I have my health, I have my children,
and we are all well fed and taken care of. Isn't that what we all do this
for anyway? God is good whether we get rich or not, and he takes care of
our needs and even most of our wants. But if we make getting rich the
center of our attention, we end up losing anyway, because we lose sight of
what being rich really is. And that is having the time to be with your
family and being able to help others and knowing that all your needs are
taken care of. And I've always had that even when beans and potatoes were
all we had, we had something. My goal now is to have more to give away,
and not worry about what I keep for myself. Because it is what we give
that makes us rich in the long run and not what we have.

Rebecca Beasley

Christian Networkers Unite!


==============N e w P o s t i n g  (3)=============
From:John Leir
Subject:AdlandPro is a really important source of information

As a regular reader of the newsletter I have always noted the readers
postings and comments, but have never used the services offered.

That changed from the 9th February 2003 when I was looking for help in
copy writing and saw the article by Elizabeth Piotrowski at

I can only say that her service was superlative not only in the
copywriting field but the vital changes to my web pages that are so
important to the visitors.

I am sure that any of the readers wanting similar services would be as
delighted as I was.

The Adland newsletter is really an important source of information for

Regards - John Leir

One can take vitamins and minerals and
still not get the same effect as Chlorella
The Ultimate In Nutritional Excellence


==============N e w P o s t i n g  (4)=============
From:Geoff Reid
Subject:Long road to Success

With any business, and I have built several offline ventures, the road to
success is not straight, wide and paved with gold,it is long and winding
with many hills to be climbed.
In my opinion, if you are serious about any business, you must be prepared
to spend some money...forget the free stuff because it will not work. If
you don't have enough money get a job and save some!
My latest offline venture is based in Thailand and from the start has also
been online with 2 self-made web sites. Paid hosting and a domain name are
essential to aid in building credibility. Without these two you will get
few enquiry emails, just a load of junk.
I use an editor but have taken the time to learn HTML.  Initially, using
free submission and Open Directory, high rankings at Google were obtained;
with continued updating and the right meta tags these ratings have been
This has all taken 1 year to date and success is still a way off but
enquiry levels are high and so is my optimism.
Persistance, determination and positive thinking + working
formula for success.
Geoff Reid.

Boat building & repair
Thailand products & travel


=====================Site Review Request  (1)===============
From:Donna Fulton


I'm developing my first website and I have been afraid to ask the question
of "Is it any good at all?"  I have spent a lot of hours on the site so
far and it's still growing daily. I wanted to stop the development before
I find out that I'm going to have to redo the entire thing.

I would appreciate your review and input on what I have currently
completed.  It is suppose to be a wide target content site with enough
marketing in it to help pay for the site and hopefully add to my family

Ok I'll be brave - please look at the site

Donna Fulton

--------------------------------------------------------------------  - A one-stop site offering something for


=====================Site Review Response  (1)===============
From: Andy Sparks

Hi John, you didn't miss anything because I looked at and didn't do a site review because it was on a
tripod site.  They had the domain forwarded and Alexa toolbar said their
ranking was really good so I clicked on the site info and it was a tripod

In between the time Robert did a review and you did your review it
changed.  That is why Robert said it was a tripod site and you said

After you asked Robert what he was talking about it being on a tripod
site, I went and looked again and it was no longer a tripod site per the toolbar.

I have gotten to the point that I rarely review sites on free hosts. The
first thing I would tell them is to seriously rethink their hosting.

 Andy Sparks

Step by Step instructions for the fist time home buyer.


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=====================Joke of the Day   (1)===============

We read about all these terrorists--most of them came here legally, but they
hung around on these expired visas, some for as long as 10-15 years. Now,
compare that to Blockbuster: you're two days late with a video and those people
are all over you like flies on stink. I say, let's put Blockbuster in charge of



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