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                     on web marketing and promotion
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                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                                      contact at
                      Vol. 1 issue #334  Mar, 02, 2003

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C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (8)

1.Advice from Me to You
~Mats Jacobson
~Charles Green
~Jerry Combs
~Ram Enterprise
~Claire Solt
~Anthony Rolka

2.Mis- leading information
~Amalia Sotiriadou
~Vince Caldwell
~Holly Klaus

3.Text -vs- HTML E-Zines
~Ginger Geracitano
~Adrian Elman

~Ginger Geracitano
~Deirdre Jones

5.Never ever pay again for website promotion
~Elizabeth Piotrowski
~Elizabeth Piotrowski

6.William Jaroske Subject: GMT
~John Olson

7.Robert Lee Subject: GMT
~John Olson

8.Long Road to Success
~Seqkat  >^..^<

N e w     P o s t s  (2)

1.Andy Sparks
~An Internet marketer grows or goes away

2.Claire Solt
~Inetekk for list building?

Site Review Requests   (1)

1.Franklin Banker

Site Review Responses   (5)

1.Rebecca Beasley

2.Tom Falco

3.Andy Sparks


5.John Olson

G u e s t   A r t i c l e    (0)

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:Mats Jacobson
Subject:Advice from Me to You

A short comment to John Olson about jumping from one
to the other opportunity.

I try to have these two of my links in mind every
day I promote. I give them also to my downline.
I think twice every time a join a new business.

Mats Jacobson


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From:Charles Green
Subject:Advice from Me to You

John Olson wrote:
> When we fail and drop out, we place the blame on the Program. We call
> it a scam, or the owners cheats and liars. We tell ourselves that it
> was anyone's fault but our own. When in fact, most of the time it was
> our fault.
> We joined for the wrong reasons. We joined for the Money.
> Here is one peace of advice that I want to give you.
> Never join something just for the Money.
> That's right, don't join for the Money. Join for the Product or
> Service.  If you can't see a value in what the program is offering,
> how can you stand behind it?

John and others,

You are so spot on I really hope that a few people understand what you are
telling them.

Of TAHITIAN NONIT Juice and the company behind it, the drummer and
guitarist of a VERY FAMOUS band that you have definitely heard of told me,
"Don't join for the money.  If you do, you'll fall flat on your face.
Join because the juice works."

The money is definitely there and is certainly a drawcard, but I do what I
do because the juice DOES work and it helps those who I share it with.

Dozens of others I've spoken with or listened to have said the same stuff.
And, though these conversations were specific to TAHITIAN NONIT brand
products and the business associated with this brand, it applies to
practically any opportunity you come into contact with.

Roger Billings -- one of the "Most Influential Men of the 1980s" (look him
up in Google if you want) -- said of TAHITIAN NONIT something along the
lines of "If you want to make a lot of money, sell a good product.  If you
want to become a millionaire, sell a miracle."

Anyway, this is beginning to read like an ad.  And, I apologise for that.
Basically, we love what we do and we have great success because of it.
And, this is primarily because we have something that works.  It's worked
for us and we've seen it work for others.  We cannot deny the facts.

Our company had thousands of cases of TAHITIAN NONIT Juice in a warehouse
before they even had a marketing plan.  Most companies create a marketing
plan, then decide what products to sell.  From the beginning, our company
has always been dedicated to bringing a miracle to Everyone, Everywhere.

Whatever YOU do, do it because YOU know it's right, not because someone
told you that you'd become a millionaire.

I hope that my thoughts combined with John's encourage you to succeed.

Good luck,



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============
From:Jerry Combs
Subject:Advice from Me to You

I just wanted to agree with John on this one. Many of us go down this road
and need to hear this advice more often because I think we tend to forget
or let the hype get to us.
This is solid advice and I'm glad John has reminded us all of it.
Thanks John.

Jerry Combs



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============
From:Ram Enterprise
Subject:Advice from Me to You

Reference John Olsons remarks stated above in #333 Adland
Digest. I endorse his comments and feel that they also
reflect my feelings on the subject.

Ram Enterprise

A Health Care Solution at $30 per month for a family!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.5)=============
From:Claire Solt
Subject:Advice from Me to You

I agree with Mr Olson about the importance of choosing the product you
will sell very carefully. If you have a good match, not only will you be
satisfied with getting your money's worth but you will also enjoy
association with your customers because you will have a lot in common.

Originally I was an educator. When I went into sales I picked an
educational product that I had bought and used myself. I was following my
passion and vocation by doing that. I was happy and successful learning to
sell it.

I would like to dispute the idea that "we cannot sell".
Sales is something you can learn, and there are lots of sales trainers. I
have personally trained thousands of people to sell.

The first roadblock is to stop thinking that you don't want to be like the
worst used car salesman you ever encountered. Of course, you don't want to
offend like he did. You have also encountered many "good salespeople" and
sales messages that gave you information you wanted or needed and helped
you buy something.

We are all selling. Let's not kid ourselves. We are selling programs,
website visits, or ezine subscriptions, services or products. Why not
learn how to do it well?

Sales is a process. This process has a beginning, middle, and end. They
are called warm-up, presentation, and close. You must learn to all three
as well as you can.

Here is the best shortcut I know of. Pick a product that you really like
and get to know it well. Use the marketing tools suggested by the website.
They have been tested. Add your own testimonial telling why you like the
product so much.

Realize this: websites are selling, so use them to develop the advertising
you will use to sell them. Look to see how it sold you. What jumps out at
you on the website? These are the selling points and power phrases that
might make good headlines for you. Test them to see which pull the best.

Many websites and long sales letters can also be adapted to become
autoresponder messages. Look for the closes (click here to order) and
split them up into shorter messages. If this letter sold you, then it will
sell others like you.

But before you jump in and start selling, do some due diligence. Talk to
some people, call the company and the person who wants to be your sponsor.
Find out if the company is stable and pays. Find out if the sponsor really
knows the program. If you like the program, product, and company, look for
a very good sponsor, not just anyone. Also, make sure you will get
complete contact information on your customers or signups, so you can get
to know them.

I don't join anything, unless I think I will have a very good sponsor. I
won't promote any thing unless I can contact my recruits. I make a point
of promoting the things I am paying for until they pay for themselves.
After all, profit is what you take home after you have covered your costs.

Claire Solt PhD

Granny is a Marketing and Training Pro Learn Principles and Programs to
Get 900 Hits/Day and 20 sign-uups/month


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.6)=============
From:Anthony Rolka
Subject:Advice from Me to You

I have signed on to many of things looking for my golden egg and not
getting it.  Now, as I have gotten older and maybe a little wiser, I
really looked at the product.  If the product did not excite me I never
went any further.  I found a product that got me excited and I am one of
the Founding members.  I guess I got lucky to be one of the first people
and to find a product that has inspired me and many of the people I have
talked to.  Being excited and finding the value of the product is much
greater than empty promises of great wealth. Now, I am set with a product
I believe in and an organization that has been much easier to build.
Thanks for your insight and great articles.
Sincerely-Anthony Rolka

Anthony Rolka,IRoHS


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:Amalia Sotiriadou
Subject:Mis- leading information

Boy, Robert! You are out on a rampage! OK. let me take your
comments/questions one at a time.

"Just what exactly are you suggesting? People start an "out of the blue"
MLM to scam their family and friends? Scam even people that they don't

I don't know how you got the idea that I ever suggested that people start
an MLM and scam anyone. The only thing I recall commenting on was that
there are basically only 2 ways to make a lot of money on the net: 1. By
being the owner of an MLM and 2. By building an opt-in list. Period. All
the rest you are saying are your own misconception.

"Just what type of "opp" are you suggesting?"

I am not suggesting ANY opp - whatever opp you are promoting is your
business, not mine.

"What happened to yours ?"

My newsletter is published regularly every Sunday. If you doubt this,
please got to and take a
look at all the back issues. The last issue was mailed yesterday.

" Isn't this one of the MLM'ers first tenets? Send out email to my fellow

There is a big difference between spamming and advertising. There are many
ways to advertise that are not spamming. Spamming is UCE UNSOLICITED
Commercial E-mail. You may send me as many ads as you want if I have opted
in for them. You may not send me your ads to an address I have not given
you permission to use for advertising.

"why don't the links on the left side of the page work"

In order to access the links (and materials) contained in TGeBiz, you must
become a member. The links in the FAQ page accessible from outside the
site show you what the site contains... the fact that you can see the
contents does not give you the right to access them.

Robert, I run a very above-board operation. I put the interests and needs
of my customers - who usually are also my students - above my own needs.
If you are looking to expose a scam, there are plenty of them on the net.
TGeBiz is not one of them.

Amalia Sotiriadou

TGeBiz: Your MAP to SUCCESS!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From:Vince Caldwell
Subject:Mis- leading information

I have to agree with Robert Lee again, actually on two counts.
First, His stand on MLM companies that don't have a viable product that
stimulates reorders has very little chance of creating anyone any long
term success. I have been a full time Networker for 10 years, and the
best criteria I can offer someone about a company is 1) Is the product
consumable? 2)Is the product something you would personally buy for
Second - Tripod will be the only one benefiting from any "paid" accounts.
To every major search engine Tripod is still considered a "freebie" and
pages will never rank as high as a traditional hosting service. lus,
anyone who has ever visited a Tripod site and been caught up in the cycle
of ads, will remember and probably not revisit a Tripod site. You can find
great hosting services for a great price. Hosting companies are very
competitive. I have been using for 3 years and for
less than $9 a month I get a great service with all the bells and

Vince Caldwell

Do you qualify for big money?


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From:Holly Klaus
Subject:Mis- leading information


I am not sure exactly what your problem is, if you got up on the wrong
side of the bed, it happens! I have a member who is bi-polar, I love him
just the same. You know one day I can do know wrong, the next he analyzed
one word I said and turned it into this philosophical rhetoric that made no
sense by the time he finished. Just missed a very simple point. But... we
always end up laughing about it! My goal, make money, be happy, if its not
fun, forget it. After all earning a living online should bring you freedom
to pursue more time to enjoy life, if it doesn't why bother? Keep your old
job and get a paid vacation??? Anyway..on to business...

My statement concerning setting a goal of a year or so rather than giving
a business only 3 months to make a bunch of money is sound business
practice, especially on the Internet. As a matter of fact without going
into long lengthy details which I fear Adland Digest would not care to
publish, how many businesses do you know that earn a person a living
without it taking SOME TIME. Some stick-to-itiveness. Most of us don't have
thousands to dump into advertising, and even if we did it still takes time
to develop a good business with loyal team members. Believe me, its good
advice to be realistic in your approach of 1. Choosing a business 2.
Expectations of earnings 3. Longevity factor.

And in regards to the statement do I think a business is easy? NOT on your
life. I work hard to make my living online. But I will tell you, I help
make it a whole lot easier for my members. Yes, I stick to them like glue,
I guide them so they aren't stumbling and throwing their money away
grasping in the dark, wasting time. NO I chose the name easyopportunities
and easyopportunity because I make it easy for them to join, understand
and work the business whether they are newbies or savvy. That's the point.
And that is one thing that I would recommend to ones looking for a new
biz. What is your support like? There are many good businesses out there,
but if you cannot get help, well, it just makes it harder and takes longer
to get down to business for MOST especially NEW entrepreneurs. But you know
what? I have had many members who have been in the Internet biz for some
time tell me thanks for the "cut to the chase" help I give them. As I know
and has been pointed out to me, any new business can seem overwhelming at
first. Just wading thru the ins and outs the pages of options and so on
and so on. So having someone to get you started while you are learning is
a big plus.

One of my members, who is quite successful says she emails every email
address she can find on the site and see IF she gets a response and how
LONG it takes before she even thinks about joining. Good point! Well,
she's one of my team-mates now and I am so happy to have her, she's a go
getter, and she knows how to work a biz. I am grateful that support is at
a top priority on my list.

Regarding lists, I don't know why you seem so anti list. I don't believe
anyone intentionally meant to give the impression that building a list is
all you need to do. But anyone knows that if you were to back up and
systematically think thru the best approach to build a business, a
foundational list is going to get you off to an immediate good start.
After all, if you can join and wait a month for ads to go out and
responses to begin coming in... all time. Or would it be better to have
500 people you have already built a relationship with find a good viable
business and share it with them, you will find your self in the "black"
alot sooner. You can get to the business of helping them build their biz a
lot quicker! After all isn't that basically what a franchise is all about?
People buy franchises, like McDonalds because they already have a
clientele..basically an imaginary list of people that already know all
about McDonalds, already would like to see one closer to them and already
are ready to eat that first hamburger when the grand opening takes place!

That's what list building does, it builds you a clientele that already
trusts you and is waiting to be a part of what you are a part of.

Most people don't start with a list. But when they hear the hype... "I
made 100,000 the first month" we hear MLM name dropping...we all know they
had to have a list. There is no magic ad campaign that will make you that
kind of money in 30 days. Unless you have a mint to spend.

So its excellent advice to build a list. But no, of course its not all you
need to do. Even a great list won't keep members unless its a real
business, and you are there for them when they need you. So, lets say
1. Build a list
2. Give plenty of support
3. Have a product that is consumable, that people want, need, and can use
over and over. That can be a physical product, or a digital product.
4. Set an ad budget that works for you. And be consistent. And yes, I will
say it again...stick with it, and don't give up!

Now if you want to be legistic about my using the word easyopportunity
they are around...very easy, I recently found an opportunity that takes
very little knowledge its an ezine subscription, it is not a matrix
system,  you purchase your subscription for $12.95, you receive the ezine.
You share the subscription offer with others, if they get the subscription
you earn $8 cash, immediately. Two people, you are in the black. Now that's
simple, creates cash flow, the ezine is enjoyable to read and is
informative. So if you don't mind I will once again use my favorite

No big deal, no fuss, just an easy... opportunity!

So I just want to say, I do appreciate some of your comments, and I
especially appreciate you advertising my site for me again! My great free
training course on list of the many elements, that it takes
to build a biz online... did I say that right??? MANY elements. But again,
we need to help people one step at a time... don't we?

Truly have a great week! Holly

Holly Klaus

The ONE thing you haven't done, learn how now!
Email me anytime:


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From:Ginger Geracitano
Subject:Text -vs- HTML E-Zines

Following up on what Tom Falco said in the last issue, I would have to
agree with him:

"With many email accounts there is an indication that
there is an attachment, which will show up when an
HTML ezine is sent out. Many people will not even open
an email with an attachment. They are trying to avoid
viruses. So your ezine will not be read by many
subscribers if it is sent in HTML format.

Most readers said they liked the convenience of text."

While I agree, he further states that he includes the link to his online
version, for the readers choice, within his text mailing.

What if your text issue isn't delivered due to filters like SpamAssasin,
or similar?

I just recently started offering my issues in an online version as well,
but with one major difference. Due to the spam filters imposed on us
against our wills by the ISP's, I've found that some issues, plain text or
not, are just not delivered at all.

The alternative I've found to work quite well, is to send my regular issue
as a full version in plain text. Then, after I've posted the HTML version
to my site archives, I send out a very short notice to my subscriber base,
pointing to the online version.

This way, if one of my readers hasn't received my regular mailing due to
filters, or even other restrictions such as file size or length, they WILL
receive this second, shorter mail, and can then click over to the online

One of my readers brought it to my attention that they live in countries
where the only Internet option is to pay per minute connected, and said
that this presents a problem when required to read the issue off the site.
I recommended that they save the page for offline viewing, (an option
within your IE "File" settings), or simply print off the issue.

The bottom line for me, is that if I have readers that are interested
enough to help me try to figure out a way to receive my issues, then I'll
do everything in my power to make the information available for them.

I haven't received one complaint what-so-ever about the additional send
pointing to the online version. :o)

Ginger Geracitano

Editor, The Portal To Success E-Zine


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.2)=============
From:Adrian Elman
Subject:Text -vs- HTML E-Zines

One of my clients runs an HTML ezine but as
our autoresponder system combines both plain
text and HTML into the same mail, people who
can't read HTML will only see the plain text

It's true that some mail programs will see
the extra mail as an attachment, that's just
the way it is with MIME, and yet I felt the
need to pour some more light onto the subject.

You see he tells me that since sending his
ezine out in HTML he has seen his subscriber
base increase and remain more loyal. Not the
case when it was plain text only.

I myself am subscribed to at least 4 HTML
only ezines and because of their color I'm
always keen to read them. I'm subscribed to
approximately 12 plain text ezines which I
never read. The content may be good but it
has no pull if it's drab.

I read AdlandPro ezine occasionally but I'm
sure I would read it always if it was in color.

Think of it this way if you will, when you
go into a book store, what makes you select a
book to buy, is it the content or the cover?
It's the content but who starts reading the
content before making their purchase? Nobody!
The cover has to get your attention or you're
likely to only buy books written by authors
you already know.

The argument that people won't open an HTML
email because people are afraid of attachments
is the most ridiculous one I have yet heard.
Without going into a long story about that
let me just say that people who subscribed to
your ezine expect to receive it and they will
open it when they know who it's from. 99% of
the time they know it's an HTML ezine anyway.

I remember when the color TV first came out,
my father and I were walking down the high
street and one of the first Decca's caught
his eye playing in a store window. We stared
at the color screen for a while and then my
father said "It's just a fad, it will never
catch on."

How many of you have a black & white set today?

If my dad were alive today he would probably
be cheering along all you plain text supporters
but the fact of the matter is he was WRONG!

I suppose the bottom line is do you want to
have a large subscriber base who look forward
to receiving your ezine or do you want to win
the plain text HTML argument and have people
on your list who use their delete button more
often than you imagine?

The ball's in your court.

Adrian Elman

Manage your HTML/plain text combined ezine the
way the professionals do. Use an autoresponder
that has it all.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From:Ginger Geracitano

In response to Doug Steinke, who had that bad experience with StormPay...

I know it's been a while since I participated here at Adland...  (been
here a year and am STAYING!! Thanks Bogdan, for all you make available to
us!) ... but for those that don't remember me, I was a corporate banker
for 15 years before starting up my own Internet Business (Web Design and
E-Zine Publishing).

I have passed up on participating in business opportunities due to their
use of StormPay. I many times place my personal principles before
convenience when it comes to what I will and will NOT recommend to my

Perhaps someone more familiar with the workings over at StormPay can
explain to me how they can call themselves a 'Payment Provider', when in
all actuality, they don't process anything further than the capacity of an
"agent" for several different processors.

It wasn't until I had signed up for an account, that I realized that they
offer several different processors to pay through. Now, perhaps it's my
background in banking that makes me more sceptical than most, but the
question that comes to my mind is, why should I pay StormPay for the
processing of my payments, for the sole purpose of bypassing the Terms Of
Service that PayPal has in place regarding income opportunities?

In my humble opinion, if the program I'm considering joining is
legitimate, and stable, they should be able to get a payment processor
that will handle their transactions without having to 'bypass' anyone's
TOS agreement.

StormPay, to me, seems like nothing more than a payment processing link
farm of sorts. I'd rather be sure exactly who is handling my transactions,
and will continue to avoid programs that exclusively use StormPay for
their payment processor of choice.

Ginger Geracitano

Ginger Geracitano, Editor
10 Simple Steps To A Flood Of Online Sales


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.2)=============
From:Deirdre Jones

There has been a LOT of discussion concerning StormPay lately.  So in
response to Doug Steinke's post in the last issue, I here are the fees for
adding money to your StormPay account.  I am with Doug on this one.  It is
RIDICULOUS to charge me to add money to an account.  But they do offer one
free option - funding by money order.  You can review the fees for funding
your StomPay account and sending and receiving money below.

StormPay Fees

Open an account - FREE

Withdraw Funds

Check from StormPay: $2.00
Check by mail: $2
Electronic Transfer: (US Customers) $2
To Global Pay Card: $2
Check By email: $2

Send or Receive

Send Money = Free
Receive Money = 2.9% plus $0.39 USD per transaction

StormPay Funding Options

Credit Cards: The average discount rate charged by our credit card
processor is 10% plus $1.25 per transaction. All credit card transactions
will be charged a 10% plus $1.25 transaction fee.

Funding by Online Checks

Direct Online Check: Due to the amount of fraudulent transactions by
online check, this method carries a 20% fee. Your account will be credited
the amount you send via online check less 20%

Hyperwallet: Your StormPay account will be funded within 12 hours or less.
There is a 5% fee to fund from Hyperwallet.

MoneyBookers: There is a 5% transfer fee involved which will be deducted
from the payment sent from MoneyBookers.

AnyPay: There is a 5% transfer fee involved which will be deducted from
the payment sent from AnyPay.

Charge to Phone Bill: The charges for using this feature is $2.25 per
transaction plus 5% of the total charged to your phone bill. These fees
are paid to the service provider and not StormPay.  Example: If you charge
$35 to your phone bill, you will net $31.00 into your StormPay account.

Funding through PayPal

Please note that you cannot fund your StormPay account directly from
PayPal.  You have to use a third party processor.  These are listed below.

ALL of these fees are charged against the amount you intend to transfer
2.9% & .30 cents from Paypal
5% from BetFunder
2.9% &.39 cents from Stormpay

7 Streams Inc.:
PayPal to StormPay
We Deduct Standard PayPal Transaction Fees and Impose a 3% Service Charge
on the requested amount of funds received via PayPal.  There is a minimum
$0.65 processing fee.

Funding through E-bullions and currencies:

E-gold: 3%
NetPay: 3%
E-bullion: There is a 5% transfer fee involved which will be deducted from
the payment sent from E-bullion.
EvoCash: There is a 5% transfer fee involved which will be deducted from
the payment sent from EvoCash.
MoneyBookers: There is a 5% transfer fee involved which will be deducted
from the payment sent from MoneyBookers.

Money Order: FREE
Send money orders to:
PMB #211
1960-J Madison St.
Clarksville, TN 37043

StormPay is located:
Copthall, PO Box 2331
Roseau, Common Wealth of Dominica
West Indies

Now I must admit that I have heard everybody and their mama talking about
how GREAT StormPay is, and it did appear pretty cool until I discovered
how INCONVENIENT it is for me to fund my account.  SO if you do not want
to get charged and arm and leg to fund your StormPay account, I suggest
that you use a traceable money order and send it to their US private
mailbox.  As for me, the verdict is still out on this one.  I will watch
and wait.

Deirdre Jones

ZeroCents Long Distance.  No per minute charges. No switching companies.
No guesswork.  Just a Flat $29.99 monthly rate:


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)=============
From:Elizabeth Piotrowski
Subject:Never ever pay again for website promotion

Hi Robert,

In the past, I've read your posts in the Adland Digest with humour and a
little trepidation. I always said to myself "Gee, I'm so glad he's not
writing about me!"

I should have known my days were numbered ;)

But I digress.

You said:
[Quote]" .then you proceeded to tell us
how you tried to HIDE the fact that you had no domain name, that your
hosting was free."[End Quote]

Let me make it perfectly clear that I was not trying to hide anything; a
domain name was simply more affordable for me at the time than paid
hosting. And sure, I could have 'parked' my domain name. However, since I
didn't know when I would be able to acquire paid hosting, I figured why
sit on it? My goal was to get my site's name 'out there'. I had set my
goals, and was doing with what I had at the time. If this seems like
treachery to you, then that is something you will have to deal with, not

You also said:
[Quote]" Just goes to tell us that if you have a few dollars to pay for a
real domain name and a few more to pay for hosting you probably would have
ahead of the game by months if not years."[End Quote]

I recognize this as your attempt to get a rise out of me, and so normally
wouldn't dignify it with a response, but what the heck - I have a few
minutes :)

How can you be so sure that I would have been 'light years ahead' had I
purchased paid hosting at the same time I purchased my domain name? That
is something that even I can't be sure of, and I'm the owner! Anyway (as I
stated above), my finances wouldn't allow for it. As much as I would have
liked to have purchased paid hosting back then, it's 'awful hard to
multiply zeroes' as a friend of mine likes to say.  But today, my business
is flourishing, despite the fact that you think I took the long way

Just one last thing. You said:
 [Quote]" Elizabeth, how many geocities web sites are there that you've
seen? How many would you trust your money too? Despite the fact that they
have a
paid hosting option, they, along with most other free and sub-domain free
services, have a lot of untrustworthy sites hosted."[End Quote]

I'm not even going to get into this, because you know as well as I do that
untrustworthy individuals can be found anywhere online these days, paid
hosting or not.

Oh and by the way, yes - I hit #3 at Google after I had my own domain
name. But it didn't happen overnight - it happened a year later. Better
late than never, I always say.

I'll look forward to your future Adland posts, Robert. Let's duel again

Elizabeth Piotrowski

Strategy Ad Service - Your Copywriting Solution!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.2)=============
From:Elizabeth Piotrowski
Subject:Never ever pay again for website promotion

Hi Andy,

I agree with you. It IS a disservice to allow newbies to believe they can
be successful using only free resources. However, it doesn't make
statements like "If you have no money for hosting, you won't make it
anyway" sting any less, do you know what I mean?

That was my point - if a newbie can't afford their own domain or whatever,
why sabotage your business' success and make them feel like failures at
the same time? It's a lose-lose situation. A more positive statement such
as "Free resources can present valuable advertising opportunities when you
're just starting out. But there is also much to be said for paid
resources, which can do a lot more to further your sales by: ..." etc. A
statement such as this one is non-offensive, yet it makes the reader
ponder the pros and cons of both the free and paid.

You said in Issue #332:

[Quote] "Why do we (because I used to tell people they could succeed
without spending any money) set people up for disappointment when they
don't achieve success?"
[End Quote]

Telling a newbie they won't make it because they can't afford it could do
enough damage to ENSURE they don't succeed. But then again, they'd have to
believe that statement for this to occur.

You also said:

"We told them it was possible, we just didn't tell them how much more
difficult it is to succeed."
[End Quote]

I sincerely believe that this is the fault of the 'make money doing
nothing' mindset that seems to be everywhere online these days. Too many
newbies are falling into this trap. It's just MHO, but I think if we
serious business owners worked a little harder to educate the newbies
about the work involved with running a business (as opposed to telling
them a low income will result in their business' failure), we'd all be
reaping the benefits.

Getting off my soapbox now :)

Oh and Andy, take an extra 'y' for the one I missed in your name in Issue
#331. Sorry about that.

Elizabeth Piotrowski

Strategy Ad Service
Your Copywriting Solution!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (6.1)=============
From:John Olson
Subject:William Jaroske Subject: GMT


Well, if you want to keep your free site at Tripod, that's fine with me.
It's your choice and your Website. Banners, Pop ups and all. It's your

And the Newbies won't know the difference anyway, though the pop ups might
annoy them.

But when you have a Website, what do you want to do with it? You want to
focus the visitors eye and their attention on what you have to offer. Do
you really want someone else's banners and pop ups distracting them? I
don't think so.

You have this Website so you can introduce people to your business, right?

Now, not everyone who drops by with know it's hosted for free. But a lot
will. And what does that say about you and how successful you are with
your business when you can't even afford a few dollars a month for a paid
Host and a very few dollars a year for a domain name?

You can register a domain for less then $10 a year a lot of places. You
could even do that and then forward that domain to your free site, but you
don't even do that.

My Hosting with OLM costs me $12.95 cents a month and that is with the
same Trellix Builder you are using on Tripod, but without someone else's
banners or pop ups. And you can get hosting cheaper then that. The point
is, it doesn't cost that much.

So, what does it say about a person who is in business online when they
can't afford to register a domain and pay a little to host a site?

William, I will leave that for you to answer.

As far as starting an E-zine, well most people can't write, don't want to
learn or have no idea what they would put in an E-zine if they started
one. But the point is not to start an E-zine per say, but to build a
Mailing List. Having a list is one of the best ways to make money online.

We all have joined or been to opportunity Websites where we read something
like, Joe Franks made $$$$$.$$ in just 4 short weeks with our....
"whatever." Or we read in members boards how quickly some people seem to
be able to sign up large numbers in whatever the program is. How do they
do that? For most of them, it's simple. They have a large mailing list and
some of them have an E-zine with a lot of subscribers. Over time they have
built up a relationship with the people on that list.

When they join something new or come across a new product or have a new
offer, they just mail the offer out to the list. They know a certain
number will follow their advice. And they know, they are going to make
some money. Why do you think most successful Retail sites have some kind
of mailing list to sign up for? And when you order something from a retail
site, you had better believe you are now on their list and will be getting
more offers to come back and spend some more. Why do they do this, because
it works.

That is the power of a good mailing list. It takes time to build and it
takes work to maintain it and keep people from wanting to leave. But it is
worth it if you want to succeed.

You don't have to build a list or register a domain of your own or get a
paid host if you don't want to. If you are doing all right as you are,
then don't rock the boat.

But don't knock us for telling people that a real domain, a paid host and
building a mailing list will help them out. I don't make a dime if you go
get a paid host some where or register a domain. I don't make a dime if
you start an E-zine or build a mailing list. There is nothing in it for me
if you do. In fact because you don't, have just might have a little less
competition out there.

But you are right about one thing for sure, just because someone has a
domain and a paid host, doesn't make them honest or trustworthy. Any
Scammer who has a brain cell working will be sure to have a domain of his
or her own and pay for someone to host it. Just as an honest business
person will.

I wish you luck, all the best.

John Olson

It's Your Money. It's Your Time.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (7.1)=============
From:John Olson
Subject:Robert Lee Subject: GMT


I want to thank you for suggesting to me to post a link to my, article "Do
Not Join for the Money" on my home page. I hadn't thought of that. But I
liked it so much, that after I read what you said, I went right over to my
site and not only added a link on the Home page, but on several of the
other pages where I had all ready posted the basic thought, but I felt the
link would only add to the point.

No, Robert. My conscious is not getting the better of me, it didn't have
to. I have made mistakes, joined things for the wrong reasons and been
caught up in someone's Hype, but I have learned from those mistakes. You
just don't know me very well. I am not the kind of person you seem to
think I am.

As you know, I am in a lot of different programs. But I don't want anyone
to join anything with me unless they want what the program offers. You
might want to read something I wrote on 2/16/03 titled, "Let's Get Real."
It's posted on the same site as the other one and has some of the same

By the way, I have been linking to that site from my main site for a long
time, but I only recently started posting the Sermons, as I like to call
them. But I have been writing them and sending them to my mailing list
since September of last year. I write something new almost every week and
mail it to the list and then post it on that site, you might want to drop
over every so often and see what's new.

I have to thank you again for the idea of linking that article from my
Home page. I really liked that idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

By the way, I rewrote that piece for Adland #333 and liked the way it came
out so much, I just replaced the first draft with what I wrote for Adland.
I just might have to think about doing some more rewrites on some of the
other Sermons down the line. Never hurts to go over something and rework
it now and again. I keep learning you know.

Take care,

John Olson

It's Your Money. It's Your Time.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (8.1)=============
From:Seqkat  >^..^<
Subject:Long Road to Success

In Geoff Reid's post Long Road to Success, Geoff said, "In my opinion, if
you are serious about any business, you must be prepared to spend some
money...forget the free stuff because it will not work. If you don't have
enough money get a job and save some!"

I would like to reply, that when I got started in January 2001 starting my
own business, after losing money to an affiliate program in 2000, that I
started my own business 100% free, and was self-employed
within 6 months.

Yes, I've upgraded to paid services, from free web hosting with no domain
name, to paid hosting and a domain name, from sending my ezine by hand
through my email provider to a paid listserver that is far better - but I
upgraded to that AFTER earning an income from
the business I started for free.

I had a job making $10.00 an hour working at home from 10:00 am to 2:00 am
the following morning - but that hard earned money went to bills and
feeding my family.  I did not have the start up revenue to begin a
business.  I did it the long hard way, but I did it.

Now, I train others for free how to start their own ezines because I know
how hard it is getting started.  There are many successful publishers
making an online income now, through taking it.

I train in my ezine as well for free, and do free consultations.  I earn
my income through selling ad spaces, and gain the priceless gift of joy
through helping others.

I really felt compelled to respond to this, as I don't want any newbies
losing heart, hope or faith - thinking they can't make it online, because
they don't have the income.

There are many handicapped elderly that can't go out there and get that
job as Geoff suggests, and absolutely do not have the income to start a
business, but can do very well getting started for free.  My
ezine course has helped this group greatly - I've seen some of their
ezines exceed me, and I couldn't be more thankful.

So, yes, you can start for free - and then once you earn an income it
doesn't have to cost you an arm an leg to keep it going, my expenses run
me  only $60.00 a month.

Anyone needing to get started free, I invite you to visit my site, and
explore it thoroughly there are over 100 pages there:  - once there, email me - tell me you what
is you want to do and check out my free business consultation:

To everyone success - God bless!

In His Joy,
Seqkat  >^..^<

"He (Jesus) sent two of His disciples, saying,
'Go ye into the Village'..." Luke 19:29-30


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==============N e w P o s t i n g  (1)=============
From:Andy Sparks
Subject:An Internet marketer grows or goes away

I have been around the Adland Digest for some time now and I am
beginning to detect a pattern.

If you disagree, don't be afraid to voice your opinion.  You are not going
to hurt my feelings.

I am going to pick on John and William because they offered two perfect
examples of what I am talking about and what I have seen in myself.

An Internet Marketeer seems to begin with free hosting and get rich quick
marketing.  As they learn, you can see from their posts, they get
professional hosting and their own domain.  They talk less about get rich
quick and more about search engines and targeting customers.

They give up on the get rich quick schemes and begin building an Internet
business of which they can be proud.

I am going to pick on John and William but I will start with me.  You only
have to go back about a year to see a heated discussion in which the
General (Robert E. Lee)and I are debating the merits of Going Platinum.  I
am telling everyone to sign up and we are going to get rich and the
General basically says" Quit messing with those scams".

Now Robert and I rarely disagree and I don't think the General has changed
his tune.

The last three digests have been very good examples of this process.
Robert just noticed a shift in John's position about get rich quick
schemes, don't worry Robert, he's just growing as an Internet marketer.
His posts and site reviews are improving and he is going to be okay.

William's posts this week sound similar to John's posts from about six to
maybe nine months ago and they sound just like mine from about a year ago.
William is going to be okay also.

When people disagree with me here in the Digest, I don't take it personal.
I try to figure where they are in their journey to becoming a successful
Internet marketeer.  If they are ahead of me, I take their advice and if I
think I can help, I give them some advice.

Now here are two cut and pastes from Rebecca Beasley's post;

"I can definitely vouch for the free affiliate programs being difficult to
ever make money with. I still haven't made a dime yet with them and I've
been doing this for five years."


"I have the ability to advise
other people on some of the best programs and exactly what to do to get
into them and get them going strong. I may have not done this myself, but
I have read all the books and have enough in my head to show someone else
how to do it."

I am sorry Rebecca, but you can't teach something you don't know.

Welcome to the journey.  There are many people here that are willing to
help and you are in the right place to learn.

Rebecca, a multi-millionaire once told me to just stick with what I know
and that is good advice.  I know there are things that you are good at and
that you have successful experiences to share.  Think about what you are
good at and build a web site around that information. It doesn't matter
what the subject is, could be Rocket Science, could be cookies.  The
important thing is your knowledge and experience. I don't know you so I
have no idea about your background or experience.  I do know that if you
focus on your strengths, your results will improve. Go here for some good

I think this might be the theme for my next ebook.

Andy Sparks

Free Mortgage Quotes


==============N e w P o s t i n g  (2)=============
From:Claire Solt
Subject:Inetekk for list building?

I hear a lot of suggestions about building one's own opt-in-list, but I
have never heard anyone comment on the Inetekk system that some programs
are using.

Before I started using it as a feature of Club Midas, I contacted several
people who were using it with other programs and they raved about it.

In two months it has built me a list of 6000 opt ins. However, I am not
sure that this is really my list, as it seems that it can only be used by
people in the Innetekk system to mail pre-programmed letters.

Would like to hear what others think. Is this building me a list, or is my
effort just building a list of responsive emails for Club Midas and

Claire Solt

Granny is a Marketing and Training Pro Learn Principles and Programs to
get 900 Hits/Day and 20 signups /month



=====================Site Review Request  (1)===============
From:Franklin Banker

My sons are involved in a new enterprise. They have created a new product
called Spepper(tm). Spepper is a proprietary blend of salt and pepper,
blended in the same container.

I have some experience selling online, so I built them a site to sell
Spepper from. I wanted to have your first opinions of it, good or bad.

It has no ads leading to any other sites. All links are to Spepper related
content. We have received 3 credit card orders and the site went live last

Since I am not a Spepper investor, I receive no money for Spepper sales. I
am simply trying to get my new website evaluated by impartial friends here
in the Adland forum.

It is a simple site. What else does it need?

Franklin Banker



=====================Site Review Response  (1)===============
From:Rebecca Beasley

I just wanted to make a comment on the good job that Donna Fulton did on
her site. I think its great. I didn't get to see the whole thing but I
like the layout and the design and if this is your first one, then you
have my vote. I'm no expert by any means but to me it looks like you've
got a good site. I like the Christian page. I have a few of those myself, and and also
the one that's on my adland pro site I guess I've gone
a little bit overboard with geocities sites but oh was free and
they've been viewed by a lot of people. A blind woman e-mailed me the
other day and said she was really blessed by my audio bible on Becky's
Gift to God so that in itself is enough to make it worth my while. Its a
joy to me to have been able to do something that helps someone else and
like He said, I was hungry and you fed me..when you do this to the least
of these my brothers, you've done it unto me, and I am always happy to do
whatever I can to do unto Him what I can do, after all..He did it all for
me. Donna God bless ya dear. Hope you have lots of success with your site.
Don't ever give up. He'll take care of you for doing your part!

Rebecca Beasley

Mega List 2003 and Mega Opp..Launching March 1st! Get in while you can
find a spot!


=====================Site Review Response  (2)===============
From:Tom Falco

Hi Donna,

Loved your site. It is very professional and
useful. It has so much to offer that I did
the one thing that everyone would hope for....
I bookmarked it and plan to go back and visit
it often!

Looks like you really put a lot of work and
effort into it and it shows

Tom Falco

$ave up to 50% daily at our eCatalog.
Promotional products that will grow your biz fast!


=====================Site Review Response  (3)===============
From:Andy Sparks

Hi Donna, I am not going to spend much time because I have already written
a full length novel in this issue of the Digest.

You have two major problems. You are focused upon yourself.  The first
paragraph contains three personal referances.  "Our site", "We are on a
mission", "Our article library" all tell the visitor what you are trying
to do.  At the risk of being blunt, they don't care what you are trying to
do, they want to know,"What's in it for me and does this web site provide
the information I am looking for?".

You have about thirty seconds to get their attention and if you don't,
they are gone.  Telling is not Selling so don't tell us what you want or
what you do, engage our attention and answer our question,"What's in it
for me?" in the first 30 seconds.

Second, you have way to many choices, I am doing a site review and I
couldn't decide what to look at first.  Your visitors are bewildered by
the array.

As far as the mechanics, you site loads well and once you decide where to
look, it seems to navigate well.  It looks nice but I bet many visitors
never get past the first page.

Andy Sparks

Make your Site Sell!


=====================Site Review Response  (4)===============

I took a quick look at your site First off do
yourself a favor and lose that FrontPage template. I've seen that one a
hundred times, try to find another one more original. There are sites
online where you can go to purchase better ones then what came with the
software. Trust me on this one.

You have a lot of information but too many link options are listed in the
main body of the page. By offering so many links you will confuse your
visitors and they won't know where to go. You  might want to consider
adding a drop down menu box for menu navigation so you could put many
links in one drop down box to conserve space. You'll find a good tutorial
on how to make one here

I hope this helps.


"Freebies for Webmasters"



=====================Site Review Response  (5)===============
From:John Olson


This is your first Website? I wonder what you will do when you get the
hang of it?

Donna, in my book you don't have to worry to much about people slamming
your site. It is one of the better sites I have looked at and reviewed
here in Adland. I am sure someone like Robert Lee will have some technical
comments to make and I will leave that to his expert hands.

As far as I am concerned, you have a great site. It probably covers to
much ground, but then so does mine. It's clean, loads fast, even on the
shopping pages and looks very professional. I give you a Big Thumbs UP on
this one.

You've done a very nice job, and all the hours you've put in show. If you
ever want to exchange links, just ask.

Looking over your site, makes me want to redo mine...

Thanks for letting me look it over and good luck with it.

John Olson

It's Your Money. It's Your Time.


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=====================Joke of the Day   (1)===============

This fellow had owned this large farm for several years. He
had a large pond in the back forty, had it fixed up nice,
picnic tables, horseshoe courts, basketball court, etc. The
pond was fixed for swimming when it was built.

One evening the old farmer decided to go down to the pond
as he hadn't been there for a while and look it over. As he
neared the pond, he heard voices shouting and laughing with
glee. As he came closer he saw it was a bunch of young
women skinny dipping in his pond. He made the women
aware of his presence and they all went to the deep end of
the pond.

One of the women shouted to him, "We're not coming out
until you leave!"

The old man replied, "I didn't come down here to watch you
ladies swim or make you get out of the pond, I only came to
feed my alligators."

Let's hear from you......

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