A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of  25,000 subscribers
                     on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                                      contact at
                      Vol. 1 issue #351 Jul, 1, 2003

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Topics in this issue:

Sponsor Message
Word from Publisher


C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n s (4)

1.Permission Spam
~Mireille Carrier

2.Ok - I'm fed up
~Rostislav Roytman
~Mike Hills
~Frances Atwood

3.Ezine Explosion
~Erika (Rikie) Matheson

4. Keep it Simple
~Robert A. Kearse

N e w P o s t s (6)

1. A new boy on the block
~Bill Bauer

2. assistance for newbies
~sharon cousins

3. How to get more Clickbank affiliates?
~Madhu Kumar

4. The Jumpers...
~John Olson

5. Webmasters' New HTML Tool!
~Pauline Phillips

6. Welcome to Push Button Leads, Get paid to build your list
~David Kingsbury

Site Review Requests (1)
1. Jay Bevan 

Site Review Responses (0)

G u e s t A r t i c l e (1)
1. The Online Marketing Foodchain
~ Doug Appleby

2. Shattering the Branding Myths
~Diane Hughes

Joke of the Day

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome to new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From: Mireille Carrier
Subject:Permission Spam

Paul I'm very sorry you saw my post the way you did. And you could have
only seen the same post in ONE ezine, not a few others as you were so
quick to claim. Or maybe you read the same ezine several times, I don't
know, possible I suppose. There was a reason for this too, and I don't
owe you any explanation. If I had wanted to publish this in A FEW ezines,
I would have.

I even contacted the "brain" behind this advertising and told this person
about my experience. The "brain" didn't see it as negative because it was
taken exactly the way I meant it.

I'm also sorry you only saw negative and self-interest in that post,
because it really wasn't. People tend to read and interpret what they
read the way they WANT to see it, not necessarily the way it is written.
Some think they can read between the lines, but they can't read the actual

I was not complaining about being subscribed to every ezine in the group.
If you had read my post word for word, it clearly stated that. It was all
the subsequent emails that I received from some REALLY bad ezines that
really annoyed me.

If I did any advertising for anything at all, it was definitely for ezine
ads because I still believe it's the BEST and the most inexpensive way to
market online. IF you know how to do it right. And trust me, I DO. I've
been doing this successfully and for little money for several years and it
STILL works.

It doesn't matter what people post about Paul, if there's a signature at
the end of the post, there's a reason for it. You can't attack or blame
people for it.

Maybe you're not doing anything special online, maybe you're not making
any money online, maybe you have nothing to promote, you just read ezines
for the sake of reading ezines. But some of us have a reason to read
ezines and spend time online, and for many of us, it is a lucrative hobby
as well.

If you had no link to post, you could have used mine! Couldn't resist
that one. :)

To each his own...


All inclusive for the SMART internet marketer
You won't find better,
and you certainly won't find it for less


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From: ~Rostislav Roytman
Subject:Ok - I'm fed up

Hi Amalia!

Yes, I'm fed up too but most important that all netizent are fed up, the
cup is full! Today spam is the number one problem on the Internet along
with fraud! Most government bodies and anti-spam organizations trying to
calm those spammers down but unfortunatelly it seems that nobody take it

I think we should fight against spam using exactly the same metods they're
using against all of us! For example, if a spammer sends a million of spam
emails he should get right back all these emails! But how, can you ask?
Well, there is a solution - central system.

They invented absolutely new and unique spam preventing technology to
prevent all kind of spam and viruses even to reach your inbox. For
example, imagine that you send an email message to your friend and in just
a few seconds get back an email from VStopSpam central system with a
validation link in it! If you verify yourself to the system then your
friend will receive your message, if you don't, your friend will never see
your message! Guess what, spammers will never click on that validation
link and verify themselves as all their spam mailings done automatically
and if some email address bouncing the software automatically delete it.
Plus if they click on the link they disclose all their information! The
result - we all will live spam-free Internet life! The system is
absolutely brilliant and best of all it really could stop spammers because
after a couple of days of such a "work" they eventually will quit!

This is not an advertising, I simple believe that we all would like to be
free of spam and receive email messages only from whom we want and not
from the spammers who feel that right now we need "viagra" or something
else! I thought everyone would be interested to find out about this

If I was wrong, sorry!
VStopSpam - We said all! 7 Day FREE Trial!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From: Mike Hills
Subject:OK - I'm fed up

Hi Bogdan.

Thank you very much for posting my article " Ok I'm Fed up " in Adland
Pro 2 weeks ago Issue number 349. I would also like to thank everyone who
replied. not only through Adland Pro but also to me Directly.

The result of all the replies I had over a total 4 week period from when I
publish the Piece in my own eZine to
date are

Agree with me about Hype Spam etc. 75%

50 - 50

Totally off the boil, and not understanding the article 1%

The vast majority of people decided to contact me personally, however I do
feel I must reply to William Jaroske of Get yourself educated today!!

Can I agree with you, on being a Dumb expert.. you wrote


Well you can just kiss your $100 dollars bye bye because your never going
to see it. Let this be plain and simple. You been sold a bill of goods
that's basically garbage. And you chose to follow a major guru that has allot
of questionable money making programs that are purely junk. It is just
amazing how fast you got your brainwashed.

Well Jesus wept. Didn't you see that you were being lead down the primrose
path to disaster by falling for the hyped programs that Mark promotes. I
believe he has some sites that are down right hostile and just plain
gimmicky. I take it you did not read the wording right. FlyInAds, that
basically means the ads just fly right into your system with multiple pop
ads that are just cheesy and gimmicky.

You know that there are sites out there that just go right into your
system and reset your browser settings. I encountered that just by surfing
the major search engines.

As for your losing faith on marketing programs. That's your own fault by
joining hyped up gimmicks and schemes. I hope you learned your lesson well
and will think twice before joining these so called schemes that are well


My suggestion to all Dumb experts like yourself is to READ and UNDERSTAND
what you have read BEFORE you reply in open Forum which can be viewed by
everyone. You were the 1% mentioned above.

At no time William did I say I have bought Mark Joiners package. I
haven't. I wouldn't. I personally think it's a complete and utter rip off.

You say I have been Brain washed. quote " It is just amazing how fast
you got your brainwashed. "

WHY have I been brain washed?

you said " As for your losing faith on marketing programs. That's your
own fault by joining hyped up gimmicks and schemes. I hope you learned
your lesson well and will think twice before joining these so called
schemes that are well hyped.

William. if you had visited any of my sites. you would have seen a link
to our site. As we report on Scams etc for that
site. I MUST JOIN these programs, or I can't give a report on them Can I?

But from your next comment I guess I could report on something I know
nothing about.

You said " You ad blocking software is pretty much garbage. I suggest
switching to a java contact form "

How do you know my ad blocking software is pretty much garbage? you
haven't bought it off me. so unless you have obtained a copy by illegal
means. you haven't even tried it. so coming out with statements like
above is just rubbish, and probably something I would expect from a

Also. Ad blocking software has nothing to do with e mails, it's to block
the NEW IP Ads that pop up uninvited. so WHY would a java contact form
help me? surely a knows that?

I have just vested your site and in general. I found it very good, and
agree with most of what you have there. I can only assume from the
quality of your site, that your lack in concentration when replying to my
piece was due to replying at 3 in the morning when exhausted.

I am sorry to say this William. But I will not be taking any advice from
any until they learn to not give and Look, Read and more importantly UNDERSTAND
something BEFORE putting fingers to keyboard and replying.

All the best to all Adlanders. and yes William even you too,

Mike Hills

The Daily Classifieds Group


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
From:Frances Atwood
Subject:OK - I'm fed up

I see that some of you say that you are getting disillusioned about
internet marketing. I just want to say that no matter what you do, in
order to be successful at it, you must put an effort to it. I'm sure all
of you have heard the saying "If you don't have to work for it, then it's
not worth it." The same goes for internet marketing. There is no honest
"get rich quick" schemes out there.

The one thing that will make or break you is the product or service that
you are marketing. You have to believe in it. And it has to be something
that people will actually need to have. If there is no need for it, it
won't sell. If you don't believe in it, you can't sell it convincingly.

Your total unadulterated belief in your product will be the thing that
gets you through the rough times when you want to quit.

A good product and consistency in your ethical business practices will
make you successful.
Tools For Building A Work From Home Business


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From: Erika (Rikie) Matheson
Subject:Ezine Explosion

Claire Solt writes that after following all instructions and submitting
her FREE ads, she sat back to see what would happen....
Well, Claire, not knowing how many ads you submitted I can't be sure, but,
if you got 59 responses from FREE advertising I think you were doing
rather well. Consider the amount of time and effort an ezine editor puts
in to publish YOUR FREE AD along with the time it takes to research and
compile the information provided within the ezine each edition.
If you were to "put your money where your mouth is" and SUPPORT your
editor[s] you may find you would get a better response. It is not always a
requirement to actually PAY for advertising, sometimes just a small
contribution can bring you added benefits and the thanks of your editor.
For ezine editors it is a real, but necessary, pain offering free
advertising as at least 75% of subscribers just subscribe for the free
advertising and then put in NO EFFORT to contribute.
Bogdan's digest is a wonderful example of how helpful and informative an
ezine can be with just a LITTLE participation from subscribers and I'm
sure he will concur when I say only a very small proportion of subscribers
actually do participate.

So the moral of the story is....
"Subscribe to as many ezines as you can participate in"
Do not subscribe to others just for the free ads, if you're not reading
them, just who is?? Make sure you take half an hour out of your busy
schedules to READ the content list if nothing else of the ezines you do
subscribe to as you may be pleasantly surprised at the amount of FREE
information you find.

Thanks Bogdan for letting me ramble on, please cut this down if you see

Keep smiling,
Ezine editor extrordinaire :-)


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From: Robert A. Kearse
Subject:Keep it Simple

Thie comment is in response to Andy Sparks'
emphasis which has a great deal of merit.

However, he does not include the great benefit
from building your own opt-in lists.

As Holly Klaus and other participants
have recently emphasized, building a contact
list is one of the crucial secrets to creating substantial income on the

I have recently learned a lot from a FREE
ecourse offered by Jimmy D. Brown. One of the
essential points stressed is the importance of
creating MULTIPLE contact (opt-in) lists.

But even more beneficial, Jimmy D. Brown
teaches how to make the contact lists
PROFITABLE. Building huge lists and just
sending ads to the lists DOES NOT WORK.

Click the following link and two windows
should open up. One is the pop-under offering
this mini-course.

Exit the first window and enlarge the pop-under.

This is a FREE and POWERFUL course.


Robert A. Kearse

Powerful FREE Advertising


==============N e w P o s t i n g (1)=============
From: Bill Bauer
Subject: A new boy on the block

Well, its not often that I reply to this ezine.
But you folks talking about your tired old programs
and methods that don't work just leaves me with little
alternative but to let you in on a "secret" which is
that the days of search engine submission and emails
and ezines is just about over for good.
Its time to let you know that there is a "new boy" on
the block that will kick the tar out of anything you are
accustomed to doing. And he is pretty much free, that is
if you count your labor for nothing and after all, if you aren't marketing
and making at least a couple thousand a month or more out of your efforts
then you are working for free in net effect.

This new boy on the block can do things you would never
believe. He can get you a top spot on any and all search
engines for any keyword or keyword phrase you want to
promote and he can do it in 18 to 24 hours!

And not only that, he can get any webpage you want to put on the internet
listed in all the search engines within 2 to 5 days even if its one of
those "hated" subdomain freebies.

And he can get you almost unlimited traffic as a result.
Starting from absolute scratch he can get you into the 6 to 10 thousand
hits per month and even well above that in about 30 days or so.

And he will do all of that for free to boot. Oh yes, you can invest a bit
of money if you want to but it isn't necessary at all.

And if you want to see him in action then just go to and you will see him in action.

You may not realize at first glance that it is anything different than any
other website but if you even imagine that then you have simply missed the
boat because this is far, far different.

Now then, let me assure you that you do have to put in some long hours
learning how its done and getting it properly set up. The learning curve
is fairly steep and you really do need to know at least a minimum amount
of html and XML coding. And of course it don't hurt to know some of the
other languages as well but it isn't necessary. And before you jump up and
down claiming that I gotta be kidding or that I'm just>trying to promote
my products to the list, let me assure you that what you are >about to
look at is being heavily utilized and invested in by most governmental
agencies today, the major political parties, the media outlets such as
ABC, NBC, FOX, BBC and almost all the rest of the media outlets world wide
and a huge section of our major business players today.

In other words, it would be to your great benefit if you take my words
seriously and take a good hard look at what you are about to see.

And make no mistake about it, the name of the game is content and links as
well as proper search engine optimization. If you get those things down
pat, it will work just exactly the way I say it will.

And once you have been to my link and checked it out I will be willing to
answer any questions you might have or give you any helps you might need
to get your own set up going and I'll do it for free.

It really isn't all that hard to do and the benefits are tremendous.



==============N e w P o s t i n g (2)=============
From: sharon cousins
Subject: assistance for newbies

I was wondering if there was a site, a forum or discussion group that was
just there to assist newbies. I have been working on the web for over a
year and there are so many questions that I still have unanswered or that
come up unexpectedly and have no one to ask. when I do get an email that
says "I want to help", it is usually just wanting to sell something.

I have sent questions to different ones and they may answer one but when I
ask another, I don't hear from them again. I am sure I am not the only
one who could benefit from the experience of others.

Sharon Cousins
Muscatine, Iowa


==============N e w P o s t i n g (3)=============
From: Madhu Kumar 
Subject: How to get more Clickbank affiliates?

I am selling an eBook through my website.
I have set up a 'Reseller Program' for that with Click
Bank, offering 50% commission to affiliates.
In what all ways I can get more Click Bank affiliates
to sell my eBook?

Your Future Prediction made easy by old Chinese
Oracle I-Ching!


==============N e w P o s t i n g (4)=============
From: John Olson
Subject: The Jumpers...

This has been inspired by some of the comments made in the Newsletter
recently and by some things that have come through my mail box. I haven't
written much here lately, but I haven't forgotten you all either. So, here

The Jumpers, you know the people I am talking about. They jump from one
program to another, hopping beyond hope that if they can just hit the
right one, they will never have to worry about money again. They want
someone else to do all the work for them. They want their cake, and eat it

They scan the Safelists, and read every E-mail they get, looking for the
Newest, Latest, Greatest deal. They think that if they just jump fast
enough, early enough, the momentum from their upline will carry them over
the finish line.

But what happens?

No matter how many Newest, Latest, Greatest deals they join, no matter how
fast they jump on something or who is their upline, at most they make a
couple of bucks and then it all dies. And they are out looking again for
the next Newest, Latest, Greatest deal, only to have it happen all over

And when they find it, they join it, and feel happy to see everyone else
promoting like crazy the same thing they are. Safety in numbers I guess.

But when the Newness wears off, that program dies too.

And off they go again...

They see all the Mark Joyner's of the Web, touting their latest deal, and
fall for the "Can't Lose" Hype being written everywhere.

Guess who loses and who wins?

They lose, and the Mark Joyner's of the Web win. The Mark Joyner's know
that there are thousands of jumpers out there, willing to spend and join
whatever "New" they throw out. All they have to do is put their name on
it, and promote it a little, add in some promises of spill over, and the
money and members will come flying in.

When it dies, as they almost all do, the Guru's of the Web, laugh all the
way to the bank, buy another flashy car, and start working on the next
Latest, Greatest "CON" to make them More Money.

You see, no matter how many Newest, Latest, Greatest deals someone joins,
most of them will fail and most of the people who jumped will lose all or
most of what they put in. The Guru's will clean up and move on to the
next, the little jumpers will chalk it up to bad timing and jump again,
spending more money and time and make some other Guru Richer.

This is the Webs Dirty little Secret, the Guru's all know it, in fact they
count on it.

"You can make a TON of cash by starting and Hyping the Newest, Latest,
Greatest, because there are always going to be jumpers willing to believe
you and follow like sheep to be shorn."

What can we all do to stop this?

STOP JUMPING from one Latest, Greatest to the next. STOP believing in all
the Hype and garbage being written on Websites and sent out in E-mails.

Find one or two Great Programs with Products or Services YOU NEED and WANT
and stick with them.

STOP adding to the "Get Rich Quick" mentality, and Get Real.

There is NO "Get Rich Quick" program that works, even if you join first.
If the program is being promoted "MONEY" first, it will DIE. The money
never lasts, or comes in quick enough to keep it in business.

Keep your Hand on your Wallet, and your Head out of the Clouds.

STOP Making Internet GURU'S Rich.

Just feel this needed to be said.

Think I am being to cynical, sorry, I have been around long enough, seen
enough, jumped enough and spent enough to see through the Hype and Garbage
most people are blind to.

WAKE UP Kids, the promise of "Can't Lose" is a Myth. You can and will Lose
if you keep Jumping. Only the Guru's Win.

John Olson
---------------------------------------------------------------- It's Your Money. It's Your Time.
Let Me, Help You,


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==============N e w P o s t i n g (5)=============
From: Pauline Phillips
Subject: Webmasters' New HTML Tool!

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==============N e w P o s t i n g (6)=============
From: David Kingsbury
Subject: Welcome to Push Button Leads, Get paid to build your list

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==============Site Review Request (1)=============
From: Jay Bevan

I have been a subscriber to Adland Digest for 2 years now and have usually
found it to be informative, well-constructed and timely in nature.

Why I first subscribed was because I was in internet marketing but I did
not have much success at it. I just could not bring myself to spam or
send out endless "permission" e-mails about a product that other people
were marketing too.

I read somewhere that people who made real money during the California
Gold Rush were the shopkeepers who sold the miners and speculators their
wares. Very few miners became wealthy, but many shopkeepers did. When I
read this, I understood where the internet marketers were coming from.
Buy their marketing program and they, as "shopkeepers", get rich. Well,
I've had enough of the varying schemes but if something comes along I will
have a look at it.

Anyway, why I'm writing this is, I have a website at and I would like some feedback. The site is
devoted to the discussion of the Montreal Canadiens. There are other
links available but the main focus of the page is to join in the

I have just had a rather long and drawn out altercation regarding the
legitimacy of using a certain program at the site. Consequently, I have
revamped the site in order to start up a new Discussion Board.

Would any of you have any ideas on how to attract visitors to the site for
purposes of discussion?

I would appreciate any and all feedback you may have.

As an aside, if any of you would like to advertise your wares on the site,
simply contact me by accessing the email address on the Home Page. I had
not planned on using adverstising on the site, but I would be open to
doing it provided it is done in good taste with a degree of style.

Also, if any of you are interested in your own discussion board, contact
me through the site's email and I'm sure we could work something out.

Thank you in advance for your feedback,

I remain,

Jay Bevan


================== Guest Article (1) ====================

The Online Marketing Foodchain
Doug Appleby

Life in the Wild can be good for the barely submerged crocodile, 
or the lion pride - the herd is predictable, and the most susceptible 
members are easy prey. After the predators have gorged, the gathering 
vultures and other scavengers fight for a share of the leftovers. 
It is not surprising that so many marketers are dispirited, there
is no great future in being meat!

The order of predation in the online marketing food chain 
is now well established. Perhaps, in time. the affiliate herd will
look up and see that the super-affiliates, and the gurus, will 
muster them from one program or service to another. Until the carcase 
is finally picked clean. But, they hunt in packs now, cross-promoting 
each new offering. Sharing the herds.

It used to appear that there was some independence of name marketers, 
each having (usually with ample justification) established the particular 
watering hole they were going to stake out. Ad Copywriting, Email 
Marketing, Marketing Psychologies, whatever - there was generally an 
individual identity attached to the techniques and tools of online 
marketing. Now there is just the ravening pack.

But changes have occurred in the herd too. They have been to the watering 
hole and survived. They have learned the hunting tactics, and gathered 
tools and knowledge. This may be the reason the pack has come together 
to hunt, swapping herds of subscribers and affiliates for a shared kill 
here and there. The nature of the hunt has changed.

And the ultimate predator is, of course, man.

The jungle days are over. The territory is developed. The knowledge
has been shared, purchased, earned, and tediously acknowledged. At an 
evolutionary level, marketing through the gurus has probably brought us
from the era of hunter-gatherers, to an age of farmers and industrialists,
explorers, and colonizers. 

So the pillage will continue. 
It is your choice to run with the herd, or step outside it.

Copyright, 2003. Doug Appleby does quite a lot of stuff online. 
He thinks a lot, listens, reads and watches..... 
and models this and that. 
He has developed a particularly promising model for a new niche. 
That he needs some help with.
or send blank email to:


Shattering the Branding Myths

==============Guest Article (2)=============
From: Diane Hughes
Subject: Shattering the Branding Myths

by Diane Hughes (c) 2003

If you've been online long, you're sure to have seen many
"gurus" give their ideas about branding. However, much of what
you read simply isn't true. Over the years, many myths about
branding have taken hold in the online world and spread like
wildfire. The fact is: They are doing you more harm than good.

Branding is not one aspect of your marketing campaign. It
is the combination of everything your business stands for.
Branding is not created with a single, stand-alone event
-- rather it is created over time through a series of
strategically thought-out actions.

Let's take a few minutes to shatter a few common myths about
branding and to introduce constructive, proactive branding
principles that you can build on.

Branding Myth #1 - Your USP Is Your Brand

Absolutely not. While your USP (Unique Selling Position) might
be used to help convey your brand, it is not - in and of itself
- your complete branding strategy.

Branding Principle #1 - Your Brand Is All Encompassing

Your brand is built, and conveyed, with every action you take,
with every product/service you offer, with every piece of
communication you send, and with every contact you make with
your customers.

Branding Myth #2 - To Be Remembered, You Must Have A Logo

Also not true. Look at companies like Marlboro (cigarettes),
Puffs (tissue), and Ziploc (plastic bags). They simply use a
specialized font with the product name. No swirls, no images,
no "logo." While logos certainly are not "bad," they are also
not mandatory.

Branding Principle #2 - Customers Remember You Primarily
By How They Are Treated

The most innovative logo, the most attractive colors, and the
world's best logo designer will do you no good if you don't
offer excellent service. Customers remember you and your
company by the way they are treated. Was their shopping
experience good? Were all their questions answered? Were
their problems solved to their satisfaction? These things
go way further to help customers remember you than any logo
could ever hope to.

Branding Myth #3 - Once Your Branding Strategy Is In Place,
You Need Do Nothing More

This is probably the biggest myth of them all! So many online
businesses are led to believe that once they have an amazing
USP, and a snappy logo they have accomplished everything in
the realm of branding.

However, just the opposite is true. Your branding strategy
is an ongoing process, not a one-time event. Defining your
strategy is just one part of that process.

Here are some basic tips to help you define and implement
your brand.

1. Decide how you want to be perceived by your customers.
Do you want to portray an image of trust? Loyalty?

Dependability? Innovation? Wide selection? Speedy
service & delivery?

2. What makes YOU perceive other companies that way when you
shop? Is it their selection? Customer service? Pricing? All
of the above?

3. Make a list of the qualities you and your employees must
display to customers in order to portray your desired brand.

4. Share the list with everyone in your organization and ask
them to develop specific ways they can support the brand.

5. Compile a final branding strategy and share it with
everyone in your organization.

Successful brands are those who are well defined and that have
the support of the entire organization. Brands based on myths
are those that simply have a spiffy logo, a "killer" USP, and
the hope that the customer will "get it."

Would you rather base your brand on sound principles or myths?
That's what I thought!

Diane Hughes is an accomplished Internet entrepreneur and
editor of the popular ProBizTips Newsletter. Subscribe to
her newsletter for more tips, tricks, and secrets of the
trade -- plus get HUNDREDS of eBooks, software and tools
just for subscribing!


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