A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of  25,000 subscribers
                     on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                                      contact at
                      Vol. 1 issue #352  Jul, 06, 2003

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Topics in this issue:

Sponsor Message
Word from Publisher

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (9)

1.Email Capture
~Eric McArdle

2.How to get more Clickbank affiliates?
~Harvey Segal

3.Ezine Explosion (rip off)
~Paul Skinner
~Steve Hampshire

4.Assistance for newbies
~Charles Green
~Hashan Williams
~Tasneem Rangoonwala
~Sandra Hicks
~Virginia Bahls
~John Olson
~Lois Bodycote
~Audra Gehrke
~Ginger Geracitano

5.Ok I'm Fed up (Email confirmations)
~Dave Reno
~Anita Foley
~Andrew Anderson

6.Keep it Simple
~Andy Sparks

7.Permission Spam
~Andy Sparks
~Paul Penafiel

8.A new boy on the block
~John Olson

9.The Jumpers...
~Paul Penafiel

N e w     P o s t s  (2)

1.Paul Skinner
~Sql Hackers and general comments

2.Claire Solt
~Fighting spam

Site Review Requests   (1)

1.Paul Guzman

Site Review Responses   (1)

1.Jacque Billette

G u e s t   A r t i c l e    (0)

Joke of the Day

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome  280 new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.

We had couple of emails regarding spam and ways of handling it.
Some proposed to confirm all emails by means of replying to the
sender to confirm intention of sending the email. Others replied that
this would be a nightmare if the case would be digest like this.
I would have to confirm Adland Digest 25,000 times in order for
it to be  delivered to everybody.

Well, we are working on antispam system for some time and are
thinking that there is actually a way to satisfy both of the above

If all ezine publishers would register with our antispam system
and  all users used it, we could automatically approve emails
coming from established ezines and ezine owners wouldn't have
to confirm their mailings. By introducing rating system we could
create list of publishers automatically approved and list of
publishers who would have to work for this privilege.

I guess this is a little bit of utopia, but I'm interested in listening
to your feedback.

Bogdan Fiedur

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:Eric McArdle
Subject:Email Capture

Hello Amalia,

You are perfectly right. Autoresponders are one of the most effective ways
to capture emails.
Ask yourself this question:

Would I rather generate a sale or have obtain an email address?

You wouldn't believe it, but most people say they would rather have the
sell when in reality, you can make more sells through that email address.
Back-end products and follow ups are the real deal when it comes down to
making money.

But anyways back to autoresponders. There are a few free ones that i know

(you can access an autoresponder in the members section)

Now, I would highly recommend the SendFree autoresponder system because it
is an autoresponder an ad tracker in one! Want to know how?

SendFree, daily, will send you out a digest listing who has triggered
which autoresponders. I run a newsletter and I have them trigger my
autoresponder with the subject subscribe when they subscribe to it from my
website, thus being

When I get my daily digest for this autoresponder
(you can get them separately or all in one email assuming you have more
than one autoresponder) I see who has triggered it and with what subject

Now..lets say I went and promoted it to 4 different ezines. I have my
autoresponder set to:

and so on...

Now, when I go through my digest and the subject line being filled with a
newsletters name, I know that they triggered my autoresponder from that

I know this seems to be going off track of email capturing, but im trying
to say that besides capturing an email,  you should know where it came
from. Then you can follow up with something like: Since you have
subscribed from my website, I would like to give you this extra bonus.
Incentives go a long way and you want to keep that address for as long as
you can.

Whether its newsletters, ezines, or an opt-in-list, you want to keep that
email address, so you need to constantly be sending relative information
to these people so they will be stay on your list.

Opt-In-Lists are the most important tool for an internet marketer. Yes,
ListFire, Opportunity, and FreeNetLeads will help you get this, but they
are nothing close to as effective as your personal opt-in-list.

Forms are the best way to capture email addresses. Autoresponders are the
quickest and easiest to use. Simply paste the form code on your webpage
and your form is on there which will link to your autoresponder when

Remember, an email address is a privilege to have. Don't mess it up by
constantly advertising to them. They gave you permission to contact their
email address with valuable information(assuming that's how you've obtained
their address in the first place)
If you send them enough quality resources and tools that they can use
effectively and free, they will not mind to consider buying off of you or
joining one of your programs.

"Hey, he/she 's kept me busy with so much valuable information and useful
tools, I am honestly comfortable to buy this product from him"

"Well, he/she has helped me gain more website hits and a few more people
in my programs downlines, why not join his program, he/she will probably
be able to put people in my downline just to start me off or at least give
me hints on how to use the program to my advantage"

If you've got your opt-in-list saying this, you've supplied them with what
they need and they will help you out also. These people know that you are
an expert in this field, so they are willing to listen to you throughout
their career. Just remember....

Good karma will always come back and haunt you in the most positive way

Hope this helps or opens you up a little more to this topic.

Warmest Regards,
Eric McArdle

The Traffic newsletter revolves around providing internet marketing
entrepreneurs with useful and valuable info, tools, and resources that
they can have and effectively apply.



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:Harvey Segal
Subject:How to get more Clickbank affiliates?

Madhu Kumar asked

>>I am selling an eBook through my website. I have
>>set up a 'Reseller Program' for that with Click
>>Bank, offering 50% commission to affiliates. In
>>what all ways I can get more Click Bank affiliates
>>to sell my eBook?

You need to register your book in the ClickBank
Marketplace which will make it available both for
customers to purchase and for affiliates to sign

I explain how to do this, plus useful tips, in my
free book, ClickBank SuperTips at

Harvey Segal



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From:Paul Skinner
Subject:Ezine Explosion (rip off)

Hi adlandpro-ers,

I have to agree with ezine ADs as mentioned,

I to bought 10 groups, via buck ads and was disappointed at it all. Not
just no responses to the AD for 'FREE Advertising' at my new service,
as I know I get a few join a day from a few emails
to safelists,so the AD should of worked to 100,000?
subscribers to ezines one would of thought??
but after being a member of them I can understand
why no one was replying as mentioned below...

Yes, many of the ezines content was bad and full
of Ads only.
But what was worse, is not just getting 1 ezine sent
every month (so 10 being acceptable for low cost ADs), as you have to join
all 10 to get your Paid AD accepted in each ezine at $2 each So it wasn't
a FREE POST AD in the ezines. Why do you have to be a member to buy an
advertising slot? handy to check it out and read content yes perhaps, oh
well... no problem really, guess its a way to build subscriber base to sell
Ads too :), but then all these solo ads every day keep coming.. it wasn't just
an ezine but selling solo ads to its members (a right put off!) ... overload
coming into the mail box so I can understand what was said in previous ezines.

Well its late here... don't want to many typos again
signing off

p.s. I love the old text format of ezine at adlandpro
again.. html emails are too much like reading a webpage
and much more scrolling and resizing to read it.
Stick with stand text for emails and ezine :)
keep up the great job ADLANDPRO ...

Paul Skinner



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.2)=============
From:Steve Hampshire
Subject:Ezine Explosion (rip off)

EzineBlaze is a total rip off,,,I joined this program when it first
started,and my early impressions were positive,folks were signing up and i
was getting reasonable responses to my adverts,then one day i received a
message from them saying my credit card was not funded,in fact i had maxed
the card out,,no problems i thought,I'll change my card,however the link
they sent me was not working,so i wrote to them,,6 times in all,,to no
avail,,subsequently they cancelled my account without even bothering to
tell me,,i lost my customers,i lost the money they owed me and when i
wrote to them to enquire why they had not responded to my requests,guess
what ,they ignored that letter too.Essentially,they stole from me,and that
seems to me to be the way they do business.I have spoke to other people
who have relayed a similar story.
Ezines are an excellent resource for advertising, but not Ezine blaze.

Steve Hampshire


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From:Charles Green
Subject:Assistance for newbies

Sharon Cousins wrote:
> I was wondering if there was a site, a forum or discussion
> group that was just there to assist newbies.

You might want to try  Someone mentioned it
over in the ListFire forum in May.  I checked and the site still exists
and may be useful to you. I wouldn't know, I'm not exactly new.  ;-)

You might also consider searching at Google ( for
terms such as "newbie forum" or "newbie help".  It may be helpful.

> I have sent questions to different ones and they may answer
> one but when I ask another, I don't hear from them again.

Let me just apologise on behalf of all of us who may have been guilty
of this.

Some people are quite busy and may have the best intentions to get back
to your question.  However, when they finally get back to it, they may
decide it's simply too late, so they delete it.  After all, we figure
if it was that important, you'd write back...right?

So, if someone offers help and when you write they don't answer, just
write again.  Suggest that they let you know if they are no longer in
a position to assist, but choose your words carefully so they don't
think you're accusing them.

As for me, well, I'm always willing to help...if you register in our
primary business and make us wealthier.   Just kidding...   ;->

I wish you well,

Charles Green

Charles & Kerri Green

Tahitian Noni International --
US$2b in wholesale volume in 7 years
US$950,000,000 in commissions paid so far or



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.2)=============
From:Hashan Williams
Subject:Assistance for newbies

Hi Sharon Cousins,

This is my first post to Adland, and I really hope this isn't seen as a
pitch, especially since it's completely free to be a part of the forum I'm
talking about. But, I have found a wonderful group of people that I've
learned exponential amounts of info from, and gained friends and mentors
in the process! Now, I did have to join the program & its forum to
participate, but I'm very glad I did since, again, it's free. Truthfully
it's not an affiliate program but a MARKETING EDUCATION site that allows
earning as well. I've not seen many other people talk about it much
either, which is surprising, but it's called MPAM, and if you want you can
check it out under my link

There are lots of other good websites, like Adland of course, but if you
want a crash course into internet marketing, MPAM will step-by-step,
lesson by lesson, build you a website that can help you with any online
venture, and its forums & sponsors & LIVE CHAT reps are very
knowledgeable, just what us newbies are needing! Admin, feel free to cut
out as much of this as you want, but I'm hoping this can be posted, as not
all of us have the experience (yet) to read Adland as webmasters or ezine
writers or leaders of successful net campaigns!

Hashan Williams


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.3)=============
From:Tasneem Rangoonwala
Subject:Assistance for newbies

Hi Sharon
As a newcomer web developer myself, I know exactly how you feel. So I was
browsing around for some help and I found some really good sites where you
could get some help.
I don't know if you would like to join some developer forums? These are
just 2 I am a member of :

I hope you find what you need.
Also some sites where you could get some lessons etc.: This is the best

I hope this helps you.


Web Development Co-ordinator



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.4)=============
From:Sandra Hicks
Subject:Assistance for newbies

This is a reply to the question you asked about someplace for Newbies to
go to get help. We have an area called the Learn Centre and have over 300
courses there. They range from how to turn on your computer and all the basics,
to courses that help with your career.  You may pay a monthly fee for these and
take as many as you feel you need.  There is no cost per course. To get a FREE
look and some FREE trainings as well you can go to this site and sign up. 
The trainings are done by members from around the world and we do believe
in helping people. The link is

We are a group that are working to bring the best to the world. I truly
believe that you should always be in the process of learning something
new. I am learning how to build a website that is connected to my own
domain. If I can do this than anyone can learn. I hope that this is
something that you can use or at least look at. Yes, we do answer all
questions put to us.
Sandra Hicks

Join the Computer Club for $99 a year and get a new Dell Computer with
Monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers and XP as software. Yes, just $99US a
year. Worldwide!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.5)=============
From:Virginia Bahls
Subject:Assistance for newbies

Greetings Sharon Cousins and all Newbies,

There is no finer site available for FREE 24/7 help than the Newbie Club.
The Newbie Club includes training and tools.  All the information is
written in plain language not in "Geek Speak" as they call it in the
Newbie Club.  They say, "I'm a Newbie, not a dummy!"

Have a great day,
Virginia Bahls

FREE Report: "The 7 Deadly Sins of Internet Marketing!"
HOW TO Make The Internet Work For YOU! An HONEST System that WORKS to
promote YOUR business!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.6)=============
From:John Olson
Subject:Assistance for newbies


I am sure others will offer some help, but I do know of one forum over at
Delphi. Ironically called "The Newbie Hang Out." Here's their address:

You will have to join Delphi, but that's free and easy to do. I hope you
find the help you need, there or somewhere.

Good luck,

John Olson

-------------------------------------------------------------------- It's Your Money. It's Your Time.
Let Me, Help You,


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.7)=============
From:Lois Bodycote
Subject:Assistance for newbies

Sharon, you say you have been working the web for over a year. This must
mean that you are a member of affiliate programs; maybe have your own
website(?),and read various eZines. All the above mentioned usually have a
support team to help you with your questions. If they don't-it's my
opinion that they must be a "fly-by-night" operation and you should get
out. Also you should be able to depend upon your upline sponsors for help.
As a marketer, I try to help my downlines and if they need something I
don't know- I (try) to get the answers from someone who does.

As far as when you get an email from someone saying they want to help and
all they want to do is sell something- we all want to sell something- that
is why we are here. A signature line with link is perfectly acceptable on
all email correspondence; even a "help" letter. One tip to get correct
help is when you write to ask- use the persons name - not just "Hi" or
just stating your problem.

Go to yahoo forums. There are a lot of them that just LOVE to show off
their knowledge. Type in "marketing help forums" in your search bar. There
are thousands (and more)of links to check out. Check out my site for some more help tips and links; just
remember- its a work in progress

Yours in success
Lois Bodycote

The Website Rotator PRO Marketers Use


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.8)=============
From:Audra Gehrke
Subject:Assistance for newbies

Hi Bogdan & Everyone,

It's been a while since I last posted but I
have been reading.

This is in response to Sharon's request for
a newbie forum or help request.

Sharon, I don't really know of a newbie
forum. There was one but it's been so quiet
in there I have no clue what's going on.

I would like to recommend my ezine to you
though because I help a lot of people online.
It doesn't matter what question I get asked,
I always reply with an answer.

You can see more about Ecommerce Resources
Ezine here:

Everyone is welcome to subscribe for free.

I remember being a newbie and I remember how
hard it was. You just have to find the right
people and that's not easy on the internet.

People tell you do this or do that, and buy
this and buy that, only to find out they want
you to buy something else. It's crazy but people
do it daily and that's why it continues.

Anyway, I invite you to subscribe for free and
feel free to email me anytime with your questions.
I always reply within a reasonable amount of time.

Best Wishes,
Audra Gehrke

Ecommerce Resources Ezine
Providing All Your Resources in One Place!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.9)=============
From:Ginger Geracitano
Subject:Assistance for newbies

Hi there, Sharon! :o)

You said:

"I was wondering if there was a site, a forum or discussion group that was
just there to assist newbies. I have been working on the web for over a
year and there are so many questions that I still have unanswered or that
come up unexpectedly and have no one to ask. when I do get an email that
says "I want to help", it is usually just wanting to sell something.

I have sent questions to different ones and they may answer one but when I
ask another, I don't hear from them again. I am sure I am not the only
one who could benefit from the experience of others."

I'm a Master Coach for the GSI Xtreme Coaching Program. We offer a 30 day
free Internet Marketing eCourse that takes you through the basics of
marketing ANY business on the Internet.

Along with this 30 day training, you are assigned to a personal coach that
is there for you, to answer your questions, and to meet with you to
discuss your business success.

This is our JOB! This is what we do, most of us full time, some of us part
time. We've gone through the same exact training program that you'll go
through, plus additional training by Internet, Marketing, and Success
Training professionals.

There really is NO better mentoring program on the Internet that gives you
TWO live meetings with your Coach, and unlimited, (YES, I said UNLIMITED),
email consultations for 30 days!

You can find out more by visiting the main site here:

If you think you'd like to try it, and would like ME to be your coach, you
can use this link:

You may also go through the Coache's bio's that are available on the site,
and choose a coach that is best suited to your needs!

We have only one main interest at heart... YOUR success. I'm proud to be
working with such a great group of people, and invite you to join us!

Ginger Geracitano

Master Coach, and GSI Training Coordinator


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)=============
From:Dave Reno
Subject:Ok I'm Fed up (Email confirmations)

Rostislav wrote.

I think we should fight against spam using exactly the same methods they're
using against all of us! For example, if a spammer sends a million of spam
emails he should get right back all these emails! But how, can you ask?
Well, there is a solution - central system.

Rostislav...I have been a reader of this digest for quite some time and
used to post here frequently. And while I still read every issue, I just
haven't had the time to post because of the expansion of my business. Your
post however made me take the time.

While I commend you for taking any step towards curtailing the spam flow
to your inbox...your solution will NEVER work for the majority of us
making a living online.

Take this digest you are reading...I'm assuming you like reading it or you
wouldn't have posted.

So with that being said...with your would have Bogdan go
through your process? And worse would have him do it 25,000
times? That is the number of subscribers to this digest!

Any and ALL internet publishers would be forced to do the same! I don't
think the program you recommended will ever fly as far as us net
publishers are concerned. No matter what size their subscriber list is.
It's just not time/cost effective.

This also applies to those of us using autoresponders in their marketing.

I have chosen a different route. One of course is always making everyone
on my list has gone through a double opt-in process when joining my
subscriber list.

And second...I chose to use the Spam Terminator as my curtailing of spam
solution. You can try it out for FREE at

Thank you for your time.

Dave Reno

National Director, The logon Network


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.2)=============
From:Anita Foley
Subject:Ok I'm Fed up (Email confirmations)

I think Frances Atwood has part of the equation regarding Internet

Frances said: "The one thing that will make or break you is the product or
service that you are marketing. You have to believe in it. And it has to
be something that people will actually need to have. If there is no need
for it, it won't sell. If you don't believe in it, you can't sell it

This is a BIG part of the equation, but it's not the ONLY part. Along with
providing something people NEED and believing in your
product/service/company, Internet marketing is also a NUMBERS GAME. You DO
have to ADVERTISE your offering and get it in front of enough people in
order to make money. And this is where the challenges and frustrations
arise among those of us doing business online.

We know that the medium of email advertising has changed drastically over
the last year. You used to be able to send out a million email ads and you
could count on getting a certain number of sales (based on the industry
"statistics"). The problem today is that a large number of people don't
even receive their email because their ISP has installed filters
(sometimes unbeknownst to the recipient) or they've installed their own
filters, or they just don't read email any more because they get volumes
of it!

So, if you're depending on email to advertise, you are going to be very
disappointed with your results. It doesn't work the way it used to! So,
what do you do now?

Ezine advertising, traffic generators, search engine submission, buying
leads and using the telephone, offline marketing, etc, are all ways to
promote your business. You'll need to get creative and you'll need to
invest a little money and try different methods till you find the ones
that work for you. Be sure to also investigate new advertising methods
like advergames, audio technology, video, etc.

The bottom line is this: Everything changes, including Internet marketing.
If you have a product/service that people need and you believe in it
enough to invest your time and money into it, then STICK WITH IT and be
willing to change with the changing tides of Internet marketing. Look for
new methods and do whatever it takes to reach your goals.

Anita Foley

For a new and unique way to advertise:


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.3)=============
From:Andrew Anderson
Subject:Ok I'm Fed up (Email confirmations)

G'day Rotislav, Bogdan and all "Adlanders".
I receive around 300 Spam emails every day and have tried several systems
to have them "automatically" deleted, none of which have worked very well.
The VStopSpam idea is not new and although it sounds great, imagine the
thousands of genuine emailers out there, like Bogdan, who would have to
say "yes" to verify his sending of this newsletter to 25,000 subscribers
if we all joined VStopSpam tomorrow !
If you had your own great newsletter like this one Rotislav, I'm sure you
would soon be asking all your subscribers NOT to use VStopSpam or similar
programs or you'd soon be pulling your hair out ( as would your ISP ) at
the thousands of "permission" emails you'd get every day.
I'm afraid the only way to beat Spam is to have "Big Brother" legislate
that all email address harvesting programs be made illegal and that ISP's
cannot automatically accept email addresses like,
but until then I think all we can do is carefully create "message rules"
to block out words in the subject or text of our incoming email.
Cheers to you all,

Hundreds of only "Wanted to Buy" ads.
 Free "Wanted to Buy" ads for Buyers.
 Sellers Browse/Search for your Buyer.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (6.1)=============
From:Andy Sparks
Subject:Keep it Simple

Robert A. Kearse wrote

As Holly Klaus and other participants
have recently emphasized, building a contact
list is one of the crucial secrets to creating substantial income on the


Hi Robert Kearse;

I didn't say anything about building an opt-in list because I have never
been successful building or using a mailing list.

I have bought a number of ezine ads and the only one that had decent
results was this one, Adland Digest.  I don't think most people read the
other ezines.  I know that I don't.

I am not going to talk about something here in the Digest unless I know
exactly how to do it and can prove that it works.  I think that is a habit
I developed from selling real estate, I don't make statements that I can't

I would be interested in hearing more about your methods with opt-in
mailing lists.  I am confident it is a valid technique and a good sales
tool, but I am not the right guy to talk about it because I haven't worked
at it or had much success.

The fact that I never worked at it very hard probably explains the lack of

Andy Sparks

Find the Best in Real Estate
A search engine for home owners


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (7.1)=============
From:Andy Sparks
Subject:Permission Spam

I have a serious problem with you describing emails that you agreed to
receive as SPAM.

They are not SPAM because you gave permission to the senders to send you
their email.  Not only did you agree to receive the emails, you were
compensated for receiving the emails by way of advertising in exchange for
receiving the email.

For you to describe those emails as SPAM is disingenuous at best and
probably should be described as complete B.S.

SPAM is a serious problem on the Internet and you should not under any
circumstances describe an advertising deal that you agreed to as SPAM.
Just because the advertising deal didn't turn out like you thought, that
does not make the other parties SPAMMERS.

You asked for it, you got it, so get over it.

I wasn't going to post about this but I read your reply where you tell
Paul he doesn't understand what you were trying to say.

I am pretty sure that Paul can read.  His only mistake was replying to a
post that didn't deserve a reply.

Andy Sparks


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (7.2)=============
From:Paul Penafiel
Subject:Permission Spam

Just wanted to thank Mireille for clearing several
things of what I said regarding her previous article.
After re-reading several ezine , there was only one
OTHER ezine beside Adland Digest where I found your
similar article.  I did jumped into conclusion that
you didn't know you're subscribing to all those ezines
which you clearly indicated that you did know, but
you didn't expect multiple and subsequent emails.

When I found your similar posting at that other ezine,
it raised my eyebrow, it just made me curious as
to the nature of your posting, It wasn't indented
to be malicious or scam bashing or anything like that.
It just one of those things that makes you go, hmmmmm?

I wanted to ask other readers if they felt the same
way, and because no one responded, that showed me
that they didn't see it as I did.  Maybe I had too
much coffee or got too hyped up from seeing too many
ads or got hypnotized by one of Mark Joyners's
flyinads.  I can't really explained why I reacted
the way I did, and I apologize if I offended you in
any way, perhaps this should be a lesson to other
online marketers to think, and do your research before
responding or jumping to any conclusions, to anyone's
comments or articles.

So what if I'm not making any money, so what if I'm not
doing anything special, so what if I don't have nothing
to promote, there's nothing wrong with that and I know
I am not the only one, there's literally
thousands of people out there that are in the same boat as I am, but don't
have the balls to admit it, but
at the same time, nothing can stop me from accomplishing my goals, as long
as I have that burning
desire to succeed.

I know some of you have found a lucrative way to make
alot of money by spending time online and reading ezines
and so forth, but maybe some of those people that are
making money are scam artists or bottom feeders that
preys on unsuspecting prospects.

whew!, there.. I feel better now that I got that off my

Paul Penafiel

Online Marketer


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (8.1)=============
From:John Olson
Subject:A new boy on the block

Well Bill, you do go on, don't you.

And on, and on, and on....

But where does it all lead to?

Which tells me nothing about the thing you are talking about. Maybe in
your soon to be published follow up, you can enlighten us all on this
great, whatever it is.

And I find it strange that among the things you list as methods that don't
work and who's days are over, you include "Search Engine submissions" and
then go on and on telling us all how we can get a "top spot" for any
search term we want. In other words, you condemn search engine submission
and then go on to tell us how to get "top spot" with those search engines,
without telling us how.

And guaranteeing "top spot on any and all search engines for any keyword
or keyword phrase you want to promote..." Is purely impossible and anyone
with half a brain who thinks it through, knows it.

Let me do something you did not, that is explain what I am talking about.

Let's say, I want a "top spot" for the search term, "shopping." Are you
telling me, you can guarantee, not your exact words but what your
statement means, and every other shopping site on the Web, a "top spot"
with that one key word? With hundreds of thousands if not millions of
Websites that offer shopping, not to mention, any other site that uses
your, whatever it is, wanting the term "shopping" getting a "top spot" for
all of them is pure nonsense.

Even if we take a less used term, like "Home Business" and want a "top
spot" using your, whatever it is, along with the hundreds of others who
want that same term, how can we all get a "top spot" on all the search
engines around the Web? Don't you see how impossible this is?

Anyone who guarantees or even comes close to guaranteeing a "top spot on
any and all search engines for any keyword or keyword phrase you want to
promote" is living on some other planet then the one the rest of us wake
up on.

I am waiting to hear what this all was about, and what you were talking

Oh wait, I get it, it's like the fifteen minutes of frame we are all
supposed to get, only with your, whatever it is, we all get fifteen
minutes of search engine, "top spots," brilliant.

John Olson

PS. If I missed something while looking over your site and it's source
code, sorry... please enlighten me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------- It's Your Money. It's Your Time.
Let Me, Help You,


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (9.1)=============
From:Paul Penafiel
Subject:The Jumpers...

Just wanted to thank John Olson's previous posting
regarding people jumping from one program to the

John should be complimented on educating newbies
about the web mentality and people should stop
from falling for the next new schemes that comes
out.  This is one of those dirty little secrets
that gurus won't tell you.  The other secrets I
believe is that newbies just don't have a clue
how much money you have to spend in marketing before
you can make a profit and anytime you offer something
for free they all jump all over it.

Hey, Mr. Olson, can I forward your article to
my friends and colleagues, in its entirety
including your sig file?  You can email me with your


Paul Penafiel

Online Marketer


==============N e w P o s t i n g  (1)=============
From:Paul Skinner
Subject:Sql Hackers and general comments

Hi Adlandpro-ers

Firstly, I like to bring to light a increase in
daily hackers I'm seeing visiting my site and
trying SQL hacking methods. Most are coming from
google searches. If you have a members login section
or use admentor software beware theres a SQL hole
where you use select userdetails from db where ID='' and pwd=''. It was
publish last year but really applies
to any login system using a similar sql construct.
I had the hole in parts of my system and since have
blocked it by filtering out illegal characters for
login IDs and password. I have many levels of security
including tracking and backups incase and encrypted
passwords stored incase database is uplifted.
but to check if your system is safe enter the following
in the login ID and password part but omit the brackets {' or ''='} if it
works it will retrieve
the first user details in database and allow them
in as them. Sometimes that first user is your test account or admin
account. Best to filter inputs of
space,quotes,=,-,<,>,&,@,# characters.
I have told google about people searching for URL
with admin/login etc but got no where.
But worse still are DOS attacks , where they flood your
server with random HTTP requests slowing or crashing it
Alot of orders lost that week for 100,000
someone was peed about account being closed no doubt, perhaps reported for
spamming via spamcop as I heard spamcop was also attacked.
read about it here.
a very good site.

Other points raised.

1) Ridding flyinads and popups and sound and flash
ads etc... try using a great product called Proxomuitron. I had to write 8
extra filters for sound
and also homepage submitters but I pretty much surf like I did 5 years ago
normally. Requires advance setup
though and it filters the browser cache beforing showing and removes bad
javascript function calls
its been 90% effective for me and BIGGY ITS FREE

2) I have switched to email forms across my services
and sites. I have found its started to reduce some SPAM
because it stops these new EMAIL HARVESTERS.
I think that was what the guy was trying to tell Mike
I even get people saying the bought my email address
which cant be true as its a support line! so someone is
harvesting of the web using search engines and selling them AS FRESH LEADS

3) I use mailwasher to bounce back alot of spam
but its not perfect as SPAM SOFT uses false headers
but some users use groupmailer and they get back
bounce method so it rids a few of those. In time the
idiots might work out they aren't getting through and
to give it a miss. As if I want to enlarge my head?
 and as for viruses I use a combo of products I've mentioned before. TCA
(the monitor will detect
illegal background installs) from, nortons antivirus, and
blackice defender firewall, etc

well its a bit long so will leave it there.

good nite

Paul Skinner

Artbiz Millennium Advertising


==============N e w P o s t i n g  (2)=============
From:Claire Solt
Subject:Fighting spam

some know I have my own way of fighting spam and opposing buying leads. Mr
Olsen disapproves, I know. Here a letter which appears to be producing
good results.

Why Are You buying Junk Email Addresses?


Recently, I got an email from you to an email address
that is banned from most safelists and FFA's. Yet it
is sold to many as a hot lead, I hear.

If you have been told that I am looking for a business
opportunity, you have been misled. I have been
marketing online for two years now, and I probably
belong to a hundred programs. Some I make money with.

I am looking for other good marketers to work with,
and I am particularly interested in identifying fine
sponsors. I am working on a project I call Be A Great

I have written a free course on internet marketing:
Three Steps to Recruiting Three Per Month available by
sending a blank email to

This course explains marketing from the beginning and
takes you through from submitting links to email
marketing. It is easy and clear, as it was written by
a teacher. It also teaches you to get all leads you
can ever use without spamming junk email addresses.

If you are a good networker and would like to get
acquainted, please call and introduce yourself. Maybe
we can find ways to cooperate. But please remove this
junk email address from you lead list.

Claire Solt

Don't Just Sit There and Wait. When the Recruiting is Over and Done, Be A
Great Sponsor.


=====================Site Review Request  (1)===============
From:Paul Guzman

Please review my site:

Thank You
Paul Guzman


=====================Site Review Response  (1)===============
From:Jacque Billette

Hi all,

I had a look at 1. Jay Bevan

I felt that the site was well put together, and will serve it's purpose
effectively.  One thing I felt was misleading was the HABS games.  I
thought I would be taken somewhere to play some sort of online game.  I
didn't however find a game at this site.

I specifically liked the index page, minimal info to decide if the site is
right for you before you get involved in anything. All of the links worked
too, what a bonus!!!

Please review my site for me.

Jacque Billette


Jacque Billette

Ordinary people are making EXTRAORDINARY
money WORKING FROM HOME on the Internet!
Get FREE info by email. Send your request to:
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=====================Joke of the Day   (1)===============

On her way back from the concession stand, Judi asked the
man at the end of the row, "Sir, did I step on your foot a
minute ago?"

Expecting an apology the man said, "Indeed you did."

Judi nodded.  "Oh, good.  Then this is my row."


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