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                    Vol. 1 issue #383  Feb, 16, 2004

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C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (8)

1.Ed Pena's Cash Culture Question
~Brian Ockert
~Emma Estrada
~Ricky Chang
~Charles Green

~Sharon Bray-McPherson
~Mireille Carrier
~Rebecca Beasley

3.What Do I Do?
~Eric McArdle

4.Putting value into perspective
~Cathy Wagner
~John Olson

5.Business building by responding to SPAM emails
~Mireille Carrier

6.What closes on the net? TRUST!
~Cyndi Holmes

7.Have you learned anything today?
~Geoff Dodd

8.Autoresponder without monthly fee
~Adrian Elman

N e w     P o s t s  (1)

1.Erika Matheson
~Scam Reports??

Site Review Requests   (1)

1.Vera Cherneva

Site Review Responses   (0)

G u e s t   A r t i c l e    (0)

Joke of the Day

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:Brian Ockert
Subject:Ed Pena's Cash Culture Question

I had the same experience with Cash Culture. I figured if all these people
were signing up I'd better get in quick or I'd miss out.
I even promoted cash culture on countless traffic exchanges and joined up
with Traffic Oasis and promoted it to the leads I got from them monthly.
They say it's impossible to earn from their programme and you will
eventually get spillover.
So I tried this for nearly a year and guess what?
Nothing - only a bigger credit card bill.
My advice for what it's worth.
Don't do it.

Brian Ockert

Get paid membership of up to 14 major companies for a full year


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From:Emma Estrada
Subject:Ed Pena's Cash Culture Question

I also joined CashCulture, joined and started paying monthly and was
promised people under me, but never happened.  I had several more bad
experiences with other programs.  I have lost lots of money.  I'm very

Emma Estrada



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============
From:Ricky Chang
Subject:Ed Pena's Cash Culture Question

Hi Ed:

"I had a bad experience with Cash Culture and just wondered if anyone else
has had the same experience."

I Had the "very same experience" way back in November 2003 and I read
similar experience from others on the net.

When I see the words "Cash Culture" I ran, not walk.



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============
From:Charles Green
Subject:Ed Pena's Cash Culture Question

Ed Pena wrote:
> I had a bad experience with Cash Culture and just wondered if
> anyone else has had the same experience.


> I joined as a free member.  I started getting emails that stated
> that people had joined my downline and then that people were
> upgrading.  I was urged to upgrade so I could take advantage of
> all this.
> Well, I upgraded and guess what?  The emails stopped and I had no
> downline.
> I asked for a refund and was refused.
> Any comments?


Short answer, Ed.  Yes, I was sucked in, too.  I put some pressure on
admin and in their attempt to shut me up, they fed me a $12 profit
over the course of the following seven months.  Whether anyone below
me complained or not, none of them made a profit.

Admin refused to refund my money, and they refused to refund yours.  I
doubt that you will see it again.

Next time you see messages saying that someone upgraded and you missed
out ("fear of loss"), don't be so sure.  That upgraded person could be
the one who misses out.

Longer answer (still severely edited because it was too long): I
joined as a free member early last year at the suggestion of a
wannabe-guru.  It was recommended that I register and upgrade right
away, because this wannabe-guru was going to have "thousands"
registering under him the following week.  Can you spell
"S-P-I-L-L-O-V-E-R"?   Cool!   Don't you just love hype?  It
works...maybe only once or twice, but that's enough.

Anyway, it took me about thirty minutes to go through the upgrade
process (I must have been doing it between reading other emails or
something).  In that time, I got a message saying...

"An affiliate just upgraded to GOLD in your Organization!"


"You could have received commission from B upgrading with residual
income monthly -- you need to upgrade quickly before others upgrade in
your Organization!"

These are exact phrases from the message.  In fact, I have all the
messages relating to the weeks that followed.

Take close note of the words, "your Organization".  What does that
mean?  What do most people think it means?  What should it mean?

This reminds me of that single powerline "program" which leads to
Cyprus Health.  I did the maths on that one, but that's another story.

Like you, no other messages arrived after that.  Now I can spell
"S-U-C-K-E-R" too.

Within 24 hours, I wrote to my sponsor.  No reply.

Within 48 hours I wrote to admin.  I finished with "Please action this
request as soon as convenient and I'll disappear quietly."

Admin wrote back saying... "The messages you received while a free
member were sent to you so you could see that a large number of people
are joining and upgrading daily.  Once you upgraded, these messages

NO $%^%*$^% KIDDING?????


"The messages you received as a free member clearly stated that they
were not yours"

What did I say before about "your Organization"?

Now I'll paraphrase.
* I never advertised.
* Someone registered under me "personally" and upgraded to GOLD.
  Can you spell "H-U-S-H---M-O-N-E-Y"?
* We moved house and "technical hitch" with the telephone company
  meant I couldn't connect to the net for three weeks.
* The second month's payment came out. * Once back online, I
  cancelled the recurring payment.
* Others had joined (spillover?  the "personal" referral?) and
* My account was self-funding and gradually building towards the
  $25 minimum withdraw.
* I withdrew about $33.
* The account built up again almost to $25.
* It was starting to slip (back to $19), so I added $6.00 and
  withdrew $25
* It has continued to slip with the monthly fees exceeding the
  monthly commissions.

It cost me about US$40 for that first two months.  All up, I withdrew
about $52, less PayPal fees.

So, I got my money back...over time.

But, it was only because admin gave me a Gold member to shut me up.
And, someone from spillover upgraded as well.  And, over a few months,
others did further down.

Because the account was account is still
active.  Since my last withdraw about five months ago, the monthly
commissions have been less than the monthly fee.  The account is
getting closer and closer to death each month.  I have 371 referrals
below me, of which 7 are GOLD.  None of those people earned more than
I did.  Some would have been paying their $14.95 per month for three,
four, six or more months to keep their account in the positive.

What happened to the spillover?  They drowned.

Short answer, Ed.  Yes, I was sucked in, too.  I put some pressure on
admin and in their attempt to shut me up, they fed me a $12 profit
over the course of the following seven months.  Whether anyone below
me complained or not, none of them made a profit.

Admin refused to refund my money, and they refused to refund yours.  I
doubt that you will see it again.

Next time you see messages saying that someone upgraded and you missed
out ("fear of loss"), don't be so sure.  That upgraded person could be
the one who misses out.

Bye for now,


Charles & Kerri Green are Tahitian Noni International Independent
Distributors with downline on three continents.  Their prospects
often praise their "ANY questions, ANY time, Just Ask!" policy.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:Sharon Bray-McPherson

Hello Marcus,

I was a rep for Melaleuca a couple of
years ago.  They do have excellent
products, however the problem I had
was getting retail customers.

When I first joined Melaleuca a customer
could purchase products when and if they
needed them.  When they changed the format
that required even retail customers to join
the monthly autoship program I lost all
of my retail customers, and found that
the requirement of a monthly purchase
turned people off.

To my way of thinking, the only way I
would be able to make a profitable income
with Melaleuca would be in building a
downline of other reps who are required
to purchase a certain volume of products
per month.  That seemed unlikely since
most people will join a company, stay
for a month or so, then move on to the
next "latest and greatest" venture to
come along.

I'm not saying that it is not possible to
earn a great income with Melaleuca because
many people are doing so. It just wasn't
for me because I would rather focus my
efforts on building a customer base rather
than a downline.  The company that I'm with
now - which sells products very similar to
Melaleuca's - allows me to do that, because
the customers AND distributors order products
when they want or need need them, there is
no mandatory purchases required.

I wish you much success with whatever company
you finally decide to go with Marcus.

Sharon Bray-McPherson

The Fuller Brush Company. Serving
America since 1906.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From:Mireille Carrier

I am not familiar with Neways or For-Mor, but I have been a Melaleuca
customer since September 2002.

With Melaleuca, we are all customers.  You don't sell anything and you
don't buy any product for resell.  There are no distributors, no
salesforce.  People buy directly from the company and the products are
shipped directly to them.  It works somewhat like Costco, where you have
to be a member to buy from the company.  The difference is with Melaleuca
you get paid to refer other customers, and the membership fee (US $29 or
CDN $39) is a one time fee, not a membership that you need to renew every

Many people don't consider Melaleuca as a true MLM because they have no
distributors.  They do have the MLM pay structure because they pay on
several levels, but that's where the MLM relation stops.  There is NO
inventory and you only purchase for your own personal consumption.  You're
just a customer like everybody else in the company.  It's more like a
shopping club if you want.

The membership fee covers the cost of the business kit.  This kit includes
an information sheet on each product, a detailed explanation of the
compensation plan, several catalogs, customer/marketing agreements, price
lists, an audio tape and a video tape that explain the products in detail
and the business opportunity in two different sections, and I don't
remember what else.  It's well worth the price.

Melaleuca has to have all paperwork for new customers and their membership
fee before they send the business kit to them.  Then people have until the
end of the month in which they joined to place their first product order.
There are NO commissions on the business kits, you only get commissions on
the total base points (not the amount of the order) of the products that
your customers purchase.

I LOVE the products!  I will probably be a Melaleuca customer for life.
Like all MLM's, if you want to succeed, you need to switch your buying
decisions to your company.  It's a personal choice and the only way to be
able to reach your goals.  If you're not willing to do that, if you're
against that practice, you will fail without a doubt.  MLM is simply not
for you in that case.

Most products are fairly competitive with comparable QUALITY at Wal-Mart or
other specialty store (such as The Body Shop), sometimes they're even
cheaper.  The Nicole Miller make up line is grossly overpriced and I don't
see a superior quality there, but the beauty and skin care products are
good and priced competitively.

Melaleuca is very difficult to promote online because they don't allow the
use of the company name in advertising.  Considering that so many MLM got
shut down for false claims, that is a very good thing.  But it makes it
that much more difficult to promote.  On the other hand, several people
are having success on the internet.  I find it easier to talk about it

People who join Melaleuca for the products are customers for many, many
years.  Those who join based on the amount of money they can make usually
leave sooner rather than later.  ALWAYS lead with the products and NEVER
with the business opportunity.

I don't actively promote it myself.  I have a link to it on my website and
that's where my advertising starts and ends.  I'm just a very satisfied
Melaleuca customer.

There are a lot of presentations online for both the products and the
business opportunity.  You can ask the person who introduced you to
Melaleuca if or when you can attend one.  There is a question and answer
period at the end of the presentation and they encourage you to ask
questions.  It lasts about an hour.  Then you can decide whether Melaleuca
is for you.


BEFORE you spend another dime online...
Get the information you NEED to make an informed decision on work at home
programs and home businesses.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============

I own a service company and a good portion of my work involves cleaning.
Last year I decided that I needed to limit the number of chemicals I
worked with and contacted Meleueca.  When I was contacted by their rep, I
fully explained that my interest was for cleaning supplies only.
Melelueca has a very complicated point system for being a member.  In
order to stay at the "wholesale" level, one must order a specific amount
per month to equal the required point level (like I said, very complicated
system).  Even though I had told the Meleleuca rep, the product line I
would be using was only cleaning, he assured me that I would meet the
needed points per month. The amount that would be required per month
would run me about $40.  He also assured me he would keep in frequent
contact with me.  After I signed on, I never heard from him again....
Also, there was no way I could meet the minimum point requirements with
the purchase of cleaning products only. My last order with them was $65 in
order to meet the minimal point requirements.  Wow!  I am a small business
and that is way too much money per month. I had thought the $40 would be
pushing it.
I would not recommend Melelueca as a business venture.  I feel their
products are way out of line in pricing, and I feel the point system was
more beneficial for Melelueca than it was beneficial for the consumer (aka
member).  Melelueca is very much an MLM enterprise.
By the way, I now use vinegar and Simple Green as my 2 primary cleaning
I have been reading Adland for a couple of years now.  I hope that if
someone who has had a good experience with Melelueca chooses to respond,
that they will be kind in their words to me.  I submit this posting in
kindness only.
Peace and Love to our world,



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.4)=============
From:Rebecca Beasley

>From the standpoint of a Meleleuca marketing executive, I've been with the
company for only four months, but I can tell you this much.

Mela's products are far superior to anything I've used from any other
company, and I've used products from stores like Wal Mart, and others as
well as Unicity Network and 4Life Research also, and I'm feeling a lot
better and have more energy than I ever had before, and the cleaning
products are fantastic and we use so much less that it really is a good
buy compared to the others.

I suffer from severe spinal spondylosis and fibromyalgia and before I was
using these products I was in such pain that I stayed up all night just so
I could exhaust myself enough to fall into bed and maybe sleep for two
hours at the most.

The compensation plan works really well too, but that's not the reason I
joined. I needed the products, and I needed to get the chemicals out of my

A lot of things that we suffer from are caused by dangerous chemicals that
are not just in the air we breathe but we put them on our skin and don't
even realize it because the FDA doesn't require labels to disclose what's
in most products we buy over the counter.

As for the way we market Melaleuca, it's done by invitation, and we have
either phone presentations or in home web casts where people can go to
have the full informaton laid out for them on audio as well as visually,
and it makes a real impact on our thinking.

I do not believe that this is hype. Full disclosure on everything is given
before a person enrols.

It's total truth in marketing, and it's not a rah rah party type thing
like some of our past companies we all remember, (amway in particular)

Since everyone is a customer first and foremost, and the company has a 96
yo 98% repurchase rate every month, the residual income grows as you move
up through the levels, and the benefits increase on each level. Your
efforts are rewarded, and you are given awards of excellence as you grow
with the company.

I believe very strongly in what this company stands for and would
recommend it to anyone who is looking for part time employment from home
or anyone who is looking for a lifetime career that will eventually
replace your income or give you the ultimate retirement and a life that
most people only dream of.

I'm not there quite yet, but I can see that it won't be long, and every
single person I've talked to that has given this the time and the effort
it takes to succeed, has had nothing but good to say about this company.
It is only the ones who either don't want to work or didn't have the best
sponsors who have given up too soon, and there is always a way to get with
the right sponsor if you're a little bit selective.

My advice would be for you to check your sponsor out. Talk to the other
members of the team and find out if they're giving them the support they

If you want to do this, you will do well.

I give this company a huge thumbs up!
Rebecca Beasley
Marketing Executive III




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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From:Eric McArdle
Subject:What Do I Do?

Hello Lorraine,

Ok so you're new to internet marketing. Welcome Aboard.
Although there are so many ways to go, there are a few basic things that
you need to go to get started off.

You decided to become an internet marketer to make money I'm guessing?

3 Main Steps

Research and choose product
Learn html to begin creating a webpage
Exposure and promotion

Well if you want to make money, you are going to need a product.  I would
say to go with your interest and heck, if you can make a product out of
your interest or passion, you got your product with you!

If you can't, look for a hot product right now that has good conversion
rates.  This brings me to one of the biggest must-do's.


Do you're research so you know what you're talking about. It will make the
process of creating content a lot more easier.

Try to avoid signing up to all of these affiliate programs if you're not
going to use them.  Try to find your niche and you'll be a lot more

By the way, Google search for "internet marketing" brought up close to 9
million.  Highly competitive keyword and tons of people looking for that
top spot.

You need to be unique and come out with a product that will interest an
ample sized audience but not be too widespread that tons of other
marketers are selling the same thing to the same audience.

So put in a keyword at google that you have an interest in, look what
turns up, and see if you want to go that way.

Next will be learning the oh so dreadful html (not really!)

So why not just pay somebody to build your website? Because you're going
to have to pay for maintenance and any extra work on the side.

Take a few months out to learn html (you probably won't be making money
your first year, but it's possible if you're a fast learner ;) There are
tons of places, but I learned the basics from the book HTML 4 for Dummies.

Once you know html well enough, you can jump right into your websites
source code and fix broken links or odd spacing. You should take a look at . Very helpful site!

You can actually check out forums like or
and learn html and ask questions about your sites design.  Not only are
you getting effective help, you are getting much needed exposure!

Now, you've got a product, and you've learned a bit of html, so lets get
to the part that will make or break your income.

You need to promote like heck.  See my signature below? Remember to do
that everytime you post to adland digest to get a little extra exposure.
After your site has well developed content, you should submit to search

Join discussion boards on your websites concept.

There are many ways to promote and only you can find out which are most
effective and bring results.

Don't get mad if you fail, this marketing game is a lot about trial and
error. Failing means taking steps forward and learning new things. If
you're beginning you have a lot to learn and failure shouldn't catch you
by surprise. It happens to the best of us.

So give a day or two to your product idea and come back when you have a
confident idea and are ready to get started. Oh yeah, take a look at that
html to.  Go to to check out more guidelines about

Hope this helps1

Eric McArdle

Do you like Dr.Seuss? Well I bet your young children would so do them a
favor and check out this site today:


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From:Cathy Wagner
Subject:Putting value into perspective


I, for one, would really appreciate it if you would pay a little more attention
when reading posts. You quote me directly and then put such an outrageous
interpretation on my remarks that I hardly recognize them.

Case in point:

[Quoting William's post] "You further say

"As far as CCI is concerned, I would like to say that I was not
whining, but merely stating my opinion of the information offered.
I agree 100% with John Olson, that when a program pushes their
affiliate program and potential earnings more then the value of the
product, it is best to leave it alone."

So you say trust John Olson. He's the best expert out there. Do
you know he is Staff writer of the Scam Report. And since I
brought up Scam Report in which has no credibility as a scam
reporting website as a whole. Because it sells its logo to anyone
who wants to pay for it. Even the scammers can buy the Scam
report logo and put it on their site.  So Cathy, are you saying that
if a website is displaying the Scam Report Logo, It's a trustworthy
website and sites that don't display their logo a suspected scams
and frauds? Think about it." [end quote]

How do you hear that I trust John Olson and think he is the best expert out
there when I say that I agree with him on a particular point? Didn't you read my
response to Mireille that said I have no use for any scam reporting sites? What
does all of this have to do with the point, which is the questionable value of
programs that push the opportunity more than the product?

And again:

[Quoting William's post] "When I see a web site that uses such an outrageous
claim as $4,000 a month for life as the sole content
for their main page, I do not look any further. Having said this"

"I don't think you addressed John's points either, except maybe
to illustrate them further. Products are not the same as Tools and
if CCI expects that visitors will read every page in order to get a
clear understanding of their program, then they are expecting far
too much initial interest from their prospects. They should spell it
out on the first page"

So Cathy, as you are saying if it does not look like your website,
talk like your website, market like your website and its not a
worthwhile website at all the way you put it?" [end quote]

No William, I am not saying that. Go back and read it again.

I really should have ignored this silliness, but I would hate to think that
others might have made the same gigantic leaps of "logic?" that you have.

Have a Profitable Day,

Cathy Wagner

ONE STOP Internet Business Services
Providing Freedom Seeking Entrepreneurs
with Low-Risk, Profit Building Guidance.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.2)=============
From:John Olson
Subject:Putting value into perspective


My problem with the WWSN has to do with the vindictiveness of those who
hang out there. As has been said, it's more evident when you visit the
forums then on the main site. But for the most part, they are a very mean
spirited group, led by Bob.

It's one thing to report on problems certain MLM's have or which ones are
out and out scams, but to call members of these programs names and be
little them... That goes far beyond what I can take. Most of them are good
honest hard working people who have a dream. And sometimes it's very hard
to let go of those dreams.

I have come a long way since I started working online. And I have admitted
joining and promoting things I shouldn't have. I have even left pages on
my main site up after I have dropped certain programs to warn people
against them. Telling them why I joined them, what I found and why I
dropped them. And I have been called names on the WWSN board because of
that. I have since taken those pages down.

The thought behind leaving those pages up, was that Search Engines ranked
those page fairly high when someone searched for those companies. I wanted
anyone who clicked on one of those pages to get a different perspective,
to learn from my mistakes. But now those pages are gone.

As for the Scam Report and my being a Reporter for them...

Well, I was a Reporter for the Scam Report. Rick Minard contacted me and
offered me the position. He would send me basic information about certain
companies and I would research them and write a report. For that, I was to
be paid when anyone purchased a report on any of those companies. I have
never received a dime from Rick for this work.

There were other deals he offered me and I did more work for him. Again, I
was never paid for that work, though he promised me he would share his
earnings in the different E-books he sold that included my work.

I tried repeatedly to contact him and ask him about this and other things.
He stopped returning my calls and E-mails.

I haven't heard from him personally in months.

Now Rick is a Born Again Christian and tells me he is also a Pastor. He
has said in the past, when we were talking, that if he didn't pay me, he
would have to answer to the Lord.

And that is what he is doing right now, answering to the Lord.

I don't know what his problem is, clearly he must have money problems, and
I know how that can be. I have forgiven him and I pray he finds what he's
looking for. I pray the Lord guides him to do what's right. Clearly Rick
has problems, what they are, I don't know. I hope he finds the help he

I have removed most, if not all of the links and advertisements for his
site and taken off references to my being a Reporter for the Scam Report
on my sites. I will be looking at the text in my TGIF Course and the Home
Biz System to make sure I haven't missed any.

I don't fault Rick for charging for his services, we all have to pay the
bills. And he does provide a service for those fees.

I just pray the Lord we both follow will help him find peace and Uplift
him through the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. And that he will see what
he has done and make the changes he needs to correct those mistakes.

As for having the Scam Report Seal on my site... I paid for it, and at
least for now, I'm keeping it on the Home page. I don't knowingly promote
scams, and when I find a program that is going bad, I drop it. I am trying
to work with programs that honestly offer what they say they will, at a
fair price.

Here's a list of the things I look for now (though I'm not really
interested in joining anything new) and recommend anyone who is looking at
any program with the idea of joining look for:

1. A Real Product or Service.
2. Reasonable cost for any Products or Services.
3. The ability to retail the Product or Service without having to talk
about the opportunity.
4. Good contact information about the owners.
5. Promotion of the Product or Service above the opportunity.

There are other things to look for, but these 5 are a good start.

There's more information on 3 pages I've added to my main site, "The Myth
of Making Money Online," How Do you Make Money Online" and "Scams, Schemes
and Questions." I'm thinking of adding another page called, "The Lies and
Hype of MLM." Maybe it'll be up by the time you read this.

As for CCI, William... It doesn't really meet my test. To me, CCI is all
about the Money to be made. True, there are some products that can be sold
without having to go into the opportunity end of it, thanks for pointing
them out, but not many. And you really have to look for them.

I still wish you luck with it, but..... I could not, in good faith,
promote it or recommend it to anyone. Personally I think you'll have
better luck promoting the Products and Services offered through Cognigen.
They offer lots of Real Products that save people money, month after
month. And you don't have to sell them on the opportunity.

I hope you see where I am coming from.

Good luck and God Bless,

John Olson

-------------------------------------------------------------------- It's Your Money. It's Your Time.
Let Me, Help You,


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)=============
From:Mireille Carrier
Subject:Business building by responding to SPAM emails


I've used the method you mention when I was promoting SFI a few years ago.
I only replied to spam that seemed to come from DHSC, you know, "I saw
your ad" and other subject lines of the same type.  I've never had one
that bounced and I never came across someone who was rude or obnoxious.

It worked great, the reply rate to my emails was 100%!  You certainly
can't go wrong with that.  It's all in the approach you use and how you
come across. I built a good business relationship with many people that

A few joined SFI when they didn't make a dime in DHS or realized they were
being taught to spam.  Many were newbies and just didn't know any better.
When others figured out I was in no way interested to join DHS or any
other program they were in, they simply ended the correspondence.

I always started my emails by asking about them and how THEY were doing in
their program.  I let them carry on for several emails before I even
talked about my own experience online or until they asked. They were just
happy to talk about themselves and their opportunity for a while.

I emailed back and forth with quite a few of them for well over a year
even though we never joined each other's business.  We just exchanged
ideas and marketing methods.  Funny thing isn't it, when you're kind to
people, they are kind to you in return.

I have never built an opt-in list that way, it was always done one on one
at all times.

It does work to some extent, but it's very time consuming to sift through
the "good and bad spam".  Spam has increased dramatically since I used
this method, and I would no longer bother with it.  Too many spammers
these days, and the last thing I want is more spam in my inbox.  Today
they know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it.  But if you
have the time to do it, it's free, and you never know where your next sale
or referral will come from, so...

I wish you the best of luck!


BEFORE you spend another dime online...
Get the information you NEED to make an informed decision on work at home
programs and businesses.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (6.1)=============
From:Cyndi Holmes
Subject:What closes on the net? TRUST!

What closes on the net? TRUST! Your classified ad just got their interest.
This is good, it must be a good Ad.

Historically, it takes 7-10 contacts for someone to trust you enough to
buy/take action, hence the importance of autoresponders.

You have their email, now start a series of emails telling them about you,
your product and the benefits of your product, get them to feel good about
buying it.

There have been links in these newsletters for good autoresponders. You
would write a series of emails... backwards is the tactic I take.

You want them to buy.
To get them to buy you need them to click the buy button,
To get them to click the buy button, what do they need to know?
(Should you have other options? Not everyone is in paypal.)
You are responding to their request for information/or to buy, is your
email getting opened? Is the subject line getting them to open it? Can you
collect phone numbers and call them instead? Or even send them a letter?

Put up an Adland Community Webpage, like Morris did (and I still need to

See these free online ebooks for Net Marketing tactics from seasoned

Cynd Holmes
direct marketers who migrated to the web (and reached over $300,000/month
in a one-product health mlm in 2 years):

Check your outgoing emails for spam triggers here:

All the best, Michael!

Aus/US Pre-Launch Leaders Needed for First to Market Health Product



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (7.1)=============
From:Geoff Dodd
Subject:Have you learned anything today?

Hi Bogdan,

Bob Culbertson writes constructively when he offers
to help ANYone set up Redirect Codes within their
links to help with ad-tracking.

OK Bob you're ON. I've never had Redirects explained
clearly to me. I only hope they're Search Engine-
friendly though and not a javascript entanglement
that spiders can't navigate through!

I'm listening..

Geoff Dodd

Geoff Dodd  - Perth Australia -  Surging Sales
into a raging frenzy overnight::



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (8.1)=============
From:Adrian Elman
Subject:Autoresponder without monthly fee

Hi Bogdan,

In issue # 382 we saw yet another recommendation
for an autoresponder script.  Owning three online
services qualifies me to talk on this subject so with
your permission I would like to discuss the pros and
cons of both. That way at least people can make an
informed decision rather than just go by any sales
hype that may have been presented to them.

Autoresponder scripts
- No monthly fees other than your hosting fee.
- You have total control over the entire system.
- No daily mailing or list import limits.
- Some companies offer free upgrades for life.

- You are responsible for all the maintenance.
- You may be forced to order a dedicated server to
host it on because most hosts will not allow you to
install an autoresponder script on a virtual server.
This is because you use up the server's mailing
capacity thereby hurting their other customers.
- If you get spam complaints your host is likely to
shut down your domain. If you have installed the
script on a virtual server he definitely will!
- If your server gets blacklisted you will find it very
difficult to get removed because you are an
- Upgrades are rare. If you are lucky there may be
3 in one year but the average is one per year.
- 2 of the scripts on the market do quite a lot but
they still don't come close to top online services
in terms of features.

Autoresponder software
- Use on your own PC (easy to install).
- No hosting or service fees.
- Very little maintenance required.
- No daily mailing or list import limits.

- Much larger investment.
- Difficult to use unless you are very experienced.
- Have to leave your PC switched on permanently.
- Security risk of hackers.
- Get any spam complaints and you can lose your
email address and ISP access.
- Upgrades are few and far between and rarely free
(example: Mailloop has just had its second upgrade
announced following its launch 7 years ago).

Online services
- You have total control over your own account.
- The monthly fee is generally low and includes
hosting charges (on dedicated servers).
- The servers used are generally extremely high
performance with dedicated mail servers.
- All maintenance (of which there is a lot), is
taken care of by the service supplier.
- If you lose your account due to spam complaints
you will not lose your web site so you only need to
sign up for another autoresponder service.
- The service can usually get delisted from any
blacklist quickly because they are treated as ISP's
and are not responsible for the mail's contents.
The only exception to this rule is when a service
ignores spam complaints against its users.
- Depending on the service you choose, upgrades
can be often making sure you always have the
latest version. Speaking for my QuickTell Advanced
service we add an average of  4 new features per
month and have done since our inception in 2000.
I believe we are the only company that will program
our system to do what a customer needs. In other
words, if we don't already have it, ask and we will
probably add it for you within a couple of days. The
norm with other online services and autoresponder
scripts is that you make a suggestion to be added
to their wish list.
- Depending on the service you choose, there may
be many more features than the best of the scripts
on the market. Our services are a classic example.
- Support is usually faster and more efficient. This
is because the software is on the supplier's server
instead of yours so he has instant access.
- The better services provide support forums for
customers to get marketing help or answers to any
technical issues.

- The monthly fee over the course of a year will be
more than you would pay for your own script but
bear in mind that you have hosting fees when you
use your own script.
- Most services impose certain limits. These will
vary between the amount of subscribers you may
have, or the amount of mails you may send, or the
amount of leads you may import. However they
usually allow you to go over these limits at extra
- Maintenance windows will be run when it is best
for the majority of their customers. This may not be
when it's most convenient for you, but downtime is
extremely rare.
- There are free services available however there
is always a catch because nobody is going to be
silly enough to pay money from their pocket to let
you profit without some kind of payback. This can
be as obvious as ads in your messages. or not so
visible such as selling your contacts as leads or
providing your email address to 3rd parties for
the purpose of sending you advertising.

As always, the final choice lies with the purchaser
but you should not always be fooled into thinking
that doing it yourself is the best and cheapest
option. For some it may be, for most it won't.

Adrian Elman

QuickTell Autoresponders (intermediates +)
QT-Pro Autoresponders (all skill levels)



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==============N e w P o s t i n g  (1)=============
From:Erika Matheson
Subject:Scam Reports??

Hi Bogdan et al,
I have been missing my regular updates of the digest since before Xmas and
consequently have not been keeping up with the discussions - my loss.
Now, with regard to Mike O Sullivan's comments
Subject:Scam Reports???  in last issue I do have something to say....

Firstly as an ezine publisher, I have a need for this information to
assist all of my subscribers in their quest for a profitable and safe
working environment [online].  Whilst I reproduce all information
received, I do continue to advise everyone to read further and make their
own decisions.  After all, we may not all be able to 'recognise a scam' as
can Cathy - some of us need to be pointed in the right direction.

I am not sure if Mike is a supporter or not of WWSN but I would hope that
he supports the fact that they put a lot of effort into keeping us up to
date with some fairly nasty scams.  And all of this at their own expense
[except for a recent lawsuit!].  I have found his regular updates to be
most valuable.

Meanwhile, I also subscribe to Central Command @ CENTRALCOMMAND.COM for
details of new Viruses which I  also find a great source of information.
Occasionally I also visit Trend Micro for further updates.
For those of you who do not have permanent Antivirus programs installed,
you should subscribe to these newsletters.


Visit Rikie's Biz for all the latest up to date scam and virus warnings
and fixes. @ or


=====================Site Review Request  (1)===============
From:Vera Cherneva

Hi Everybody at AdLandPro!

I need your opinion. I have start an Ad Agency where you can find
marketing tools, software, biz-opt, autoinfozone, free stuff and etc. Do
you think it will be useful for average marketers? Please, advice. I need
your criticism

Vera Cherneva


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=====================Joke of the Day   (1)===============

Provided by Marianne Payton

Senior Citizen and State Trooper...This is so funny!

A senior citizen in Florida bought a brand new Mercedes convertible.
He took off down the road, flooring it to 80 mph and enjoying the wind
blowing through what little hair he had left on his head. "This is
great," he thought as he roared down I-75. He pushed the pedal to the
metal even more. Then he looked in his rear view mirror and saw a
highway patrol trooper behind him, blue lights flashing and siren
blaring. "I can get away  from him with no problem" thought the man
and he tromped it some more and flew down the road at over 100
mph. Then 110, 120 mph.Then he thought, "What am I doing? I'm too
old for this kind of thing." He pulled over to the side of the road and
waited for the trooper to catch up with him. The trooper
pulled in behind the Mercedes and walked up to the man. "Sir," he
said, looking at his watch. "My shift ends in 30 minutes and today is
Friday. If you can give me reason why you were speeding that I've
never heard before, I'll let you go." The man looked at the trooper and
said, "Years ago my wife ran off with a Florida State trooper, and I
thought you were bringing her back."

The trooper replied, "Sir, have a nice day."

Let's hear from you......

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