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                                          Moderator, John Olson
                                   Vol. 1 issue #397 May, 23, 2004

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Topics in this issue:

Sponsor Message
Word from Moderator

C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n s (3)

1.  I need help
~ Cathy Wagner
~ Alonso Santamaria
~ Mireille Carrier
~ April Waters
~ Amalia Sotiriadou
~ Russ Wilson
~ Larry Strait

2.  Robeets ideas
~ Cathy Wagner

3.  Building a mailing list
~ Kindra Martinenko

N e w P o s t s (2)

1. Terry Tyson
Direct E-Mail Advertising

2. Frank Szymanik
Casino Advertising

Site Review Requests (0)

Site Review Responses (1)

~ Ian Hardy

G u e s t A r t i c l e (1)
1. The Proper Bait
By Bob Osgoodby

Joke of the Day

================== Word from Moderator ====================

Welcome to the 929 new subscribers since last week..

Hi there,

Thanks for all the replies to Emily's request for help. You are a great

Well, spring marches on toward summer, at least in my part of the country.
And as we approach the summer months, we need to be thinking of, not only
lazy days at the pool or beach, but ways to increase our business and
incomes. Not everyone takes the summer off, and people still need the
products and services they need the rest of the year.  So, do not think
summer is a time to relax your marketing. It may well be a great time to
increase your efforts.

With the changing seasons, it is also time to think about what you are
doing and how you are doing it. What is working and what is not? What can
be improved and what needs to be dumped? Time to clean house. A spring
house cleaning, if you will. Both at home and in your business.

So, get out the bucket and cleaners and get started. Summer and good times
are just around the corner, be ready for them.

John Olson
Moderator Adland Digest
See my page at AdlandPro Community



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============

From: Cathy Wagner
Subject: I need help

Hi Emily,

There is no set time in which you can expect to start earning. It all
depends on your presentation and your marketing.

I looked at your site. It's pretty, but you need to think more about your
presentation. Your main page doesn't tell me a thing except that yours is
one of millions of sites that sell gifts. I don't even know what kind of
gifts you sell and honestly, if you hadn't asked for advice, I probably
wouldn't have gone any further. Your offer for a chance to win a free gift
isn't as effective as it could be because it doesn't tell me what kind of
gift I could win. When I clicked through, the first thing I noticed is
your page is too wide for my 800x600 resolution. Next I noticed that all
of your gifts seem to be wind chimes. I wonder why you didn't say so on
the first page. I thought I was mistaken, maybe you do sell other things,
but when I clicked the Products link and the Home link, I got the same
page of wind chimes.
I suggest you discard the entry page and put pictures on your main page.
If you sell other items, be sure to include a variety. You need to draw
viewers in by the beauty and high quality of your gifts. If you are
selling only wind chimes, tell us right away and target that as your
keyword. Make us say, "Wow! That is pretty!" or "I need a wind chime!"

Also, on a design note, I think your top navigation looks all crammed
together. Maybe you can eliminate some links by combining them or give
them two rows or something to give them more space.

Building a business, any business, takes time. Once you have a clearer
presentation, test your ad copy to find out what makes people click and
avoid wasting time with copy that is not effective. Don't spend your money
on advertising until you can get at least some results for free.
Have a Profitable Day,

Cathy Wagner
Online Business Expert
Providing Freedom-Seeking Entrepreneurs with
Low-Risk, Online Profit-Building Guidance.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============

From: Alonso Santamaria
Subject: I need help

Hi, Emily

I can tell you in my experience that one sale in your first month is not
bad at all. How much time you can expect to wait until the business
takes off?

It depends on many factors, starting with your promotion resources.
Running an online business is a never ending task, and the secret is to
Promote, Promote and keep Promoting.

How are you promoting your store?

I will be happy to help you in any way I can.



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)=============

From: Mireille Carrier
Subject:  I need help

Hi Emily,

PPC is an art more than just advertising. If you want to make any money
with it and increase your ROI, you have to be extremely specific.

First I made this post all about ppc, then I visited your site and I had
to rewrite my comments. So the post is quite long I'm afraid.

Your front page says NOTHING about what your site is all about. If you're
driving traffic to that page, I'm not surprised you're not making any
sales. Judging by your domain name, I thought it would be all about

You have "get paid for your opinion" and "lottery" banners on your
product page. WHY???????? What a way to kill your credibility on a
shopping site! Red links on dark pink background are hard to see. Your
links inside your site all look like regular text until you put your mouse
over them.

You have a big line to win a gift this month on the main page. But I
didn't see any mention of it on your site except a register button at
the top of the page. Also I have to scroll at least two inches
horizontally to see your pages. Big turn off.

NEVER assume that your customers are savvy internet users. Make it as
easy as possible for them to buy from you.

Having a different page for each product is the way to go. SE will pick
that up better as well and drive targeted traffic straight to these
pages. If they click on an ad that says "candle holders", they should go
to a page on candle holders, not your main page where they have to click
to enter the site and get to a wind chime page (this should be your main
product page), and then look for the product page, and then click again
to find the candle holders. You just lost them, and you probably lost them
a couple of clicks ago.

If you have several items on a page, be specific in the description of
each one so people don't have to click every link to find what they're
looking for. The more clicks people have to make, the less likely they'll
buy from you and leave early. Wasted click = wasted money.

Just like people who are advertising an affiliate program. If you're an
SFI affiliate, say so somewhere in your ad. Those who are interested
will click it, those who hate or are not interested in SFI will go on to
the next ad and won't waste your money. If they don't know which affiliate
program you're advertising until they get to your site, you'll be
wasting a lot of money from those who are already in SFI, or those that
have absolutely no interest in it but still looking for an affiliate
program  to join. Especially if you say it's free! Don't be afraid to be

With ppc, you don't want as many clicks as you can get because each
click costs you money. You want targeted hits that will convert in sales
or referrals. The number of hits you get from ppc is irrelevant, it's the
conversion rate that's important.

Being on 3rd or 4th page will often work to your advantage. I call
those who click nearly every link on the first page "window shoppers."
They might find exactly what they're looking for on the first site but
just have to see what else is out there and won't buy a thing on any
site, costing a lot of people money for nothing. Those who know exactly
what they want will buy when they find it. If the first few pages are all
fluff or require people to click several times, by the time they reach
your site they're frustrated. If you offer them exactly what they want
on the landing page with the first click, they're ready to buy and you'll
get the sale.

Don't outbid everyone else to be in the top spots. They DO tell you
that the top 3 bids get the most clicks. What they DON'T tell you is that
it's a waste of money in many instances. Keep your bids low, 25 cents or
less is probably best, and be creative. Don't bid on most popular keywords
that will cost you a fortune. If you bid high on a keyword that you
absolutely want, make sure that when people reach your page they find
exactly what they clicked for.

Find keywords that will be low cost where you CAN get the top spots for
a few cents will little or no competition. Look at the other ads for your
keywords and make yours different.

Use to find the most
relevant keywords. This is the best tool for search engine optimization
and ppc advertising.

If you can visit other advertisers' websites without costing them money,
do it. See what and who your competition is, what their websites look
like, and what they offer for the keywords. If your site is more
targeted, go for it! Too many sites are nothing but fluff and hype.

PPC isn't free, it's YOUR money, make every click count.

Emily, I'm not sure what or where you're advertising, but I'm afraid
your website might very well be your biggest problem. Lose the pink
background and make it white - dark pink also makes many of your images
hard to see, get rid of all your unrelated affiliate banners, make your
pages 800x600 friendly - no horizontal scrolling, make your links look
like links, add padding to your cells in your index table, and your main
page should have enough information to be picked up by search engines and
let people know what you're all about. Your description meta tag says
"quality merchandise." You can't have more generic than that.

Just my thoughts...


Everything you need to know to work from home
Make your garden the envy of the neighborhood



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.4)=============

From: April Waters
Subject: I need help

Hi Emily,

I just wanted to congratulate you on already getting a sale if your
site has been up only a month or less. This may sound sarcastic but let
me tell you this...there are many online businesses that don't make their
first sale for months and sometimes never!!

I took a look at your site and I have two things to say.

1) Please either get rid of completely or dilute that hot pink. It can
literally give you a headache and it does not look professional.

2) The size of your pages are way to large and I have to scroll across
to see the items on the right hand side of the page which is frustrating
if I were looking for something in particular.

I will tell your from experience that making any money online is a
long, slow tedious, time consuming job that you have to really WANT and
ENJOY investing time into. If you have already had a sale you are
already ahead.

I assume you have looked around the web and seen how much
competition their is for the same items? Have you made sure your prices
including S&H are competitive? These days shoppers search around before
buying and if they can find it cheaper with a more professional looking
site they will usually buy from that site.

You have to remember there are probably thousands of sites out there
to compete with no matter what you sell, it takes time to get known and
get your website listed on search engines.

Don't give up. My site has been up for almost 5 years now and I am
on lots of search engines and since I sell items with a lot of competition
I still have times with no sales. You will find the holidays pick up for
most everyone so take this time to get your site ready for October when
sales start to get better.

Best of Luck!

April Waters


Wholesale to the public. No minimums, No Fee's


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.5)=============

From: Amalia Sotiriadou
Subject: I need help

Dear Emily,

I went to your website to see if I could get an idea of what your
problem may be. I'm sorry to say that I could not stay there for longer
than a  few seconds. Your products are set up professionally enough, but
the colors of your site are just too intense for me. The intense pink
would not even allow me to see the tiny red letters so that I could
navigate beyond your first page.

You like that pink? That's great. Use it as a frame around your products
area. Use a font color with high contrast to the background so that your
product offers stand out more, and especially the links to your other
pages. After all, your objective is to have people browse through your
website without risking blindness:)
Good luck,


Become a Marketing Pro... AUTOMATICALLY
Advertise and Earn


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.6)=============

From: Russ Wilson
Subject: I need help


Are you tracking your advertising to see what's working?

You didn't mention that you have a mailing list so that's an unknown
factor too.

There aren't any quick answers for your question, but If your ads aren't
drawing a crowd, then perhaps you need to make some changes in your ads.
Sometimes just a small tweak in the headline will make a difference.

The most important thing to remember is don't get discouraged, 'Bill
Gates' didn't make his fortune overnight, and neither will you. It
takes time, dedication, perseverance, and courage to run a web business
and build it to success.

I might suggest: that to keep peace in your family, and not send
yourself into the poorhouse, that you run your business on an "as earned"

Don't throw your money away on every new approach to business that you
hear about on the web. Think how you would run it if you had a large
overhead on a brick and mortar business; like employees, rent on the
store space, etc. Cut corners where you can, keep advertising and testing
your ads, and headlines.

Keep a Stout Heart Emily, have courage, and preserver.

To your SUCCESS.

Russ Wilson/Webintel
Russ Wilson: as Webintel is a franchise owner of Optin Safemail, where
for 12 measly bucks your solo ads will be read by millions of hungry
buyers for 12 weeks.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.7)=============

From: Larry Strait
Subject:  I need help


I went and check out your site. I'm not a guru but you need a guestbook.
You should try selling on e-bay, done right it's free until you make a

Larry Strait



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From: Cathy Wagner
Subject: Roberts ideas

I appreciate some of Robert's links. I've been hearing some complaints
about my current recommendation, so I bookmark all free autoresponders
without ads. And, I haven't seen any free ad trackers since Roibot was
sold, mostly they are bundled in with paid services.

I am glad that Adland Digest doesn't have a lot of affiliate links as a
rule, but I think these will come in handy.

Have a Profitable Day,

Cathy Wagner
Online Business Expert
Providing Freedom-Seeking Entrepreneurs with
Low-Risk, Online Profit-Building Guidance.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============

From: Kindra Martinenko
Subject: Building A Mailing List

I agree with [Moderator] John on Robert Kearse's post on building a
strong mailing list. I thought Adland was not supposed to post ads in
continuing conversations? Robert got free advertising this month!

Oh is linkless advice for John Fite:

Create a Ezine (an electronic newsletter) and advertise it in Traffic
Exchanges or on websites whose audience is similar to what type of
subscribers you are looking for. The more targeted the better.
Depending on what products you are selling, I would narrow your focus to
writing an ezine that discusses topics you have considerable knowledge on.
If you deal primarily with marketing affiliate programs, that's okay.
However, you need to find a niche affiliate program that fits along with
your personal expertise. Or, if you cannot find an affiliate program, try
a joint venture. If you are not reputable in the subjects you discuss,
your subscribers will just look at your affiliate links and see it as
blatant advertising! Actually, I have a section called blatant advertising
in my newsletter, but for some reason people continue to value it, so what
do I know anyway!? Maybe stating the obvious entices people to look at
it... just a thought.

As a side bar: I was just listening to a radio interview late last
night from Cory Rudl (From the Internet Marketing Center). I got over 1
hour of streaming audio of all of his tips and tricks for making money on
the Internet. One of his tips was building an online presence through
ezines. He also stated that what is hot in Internet marketing right now is
TRUTHFUL affiliate marketing. This means that many people on the
Internet are basing their purchases on what others recommend. These are
people who have tested the products they are promoting and can honestly
testify in favor of a product or service. What I like about Cory is that
he embeds his secrets in the products he delivers--free or paid. Example:
I got access to this interview because I subscribe to his ezine and he
wanted his subscribers to try out his new software product (Marketing Tips
Messenger). In exchange, we got to listen in on an interview. Pretty
slick marketing there. He not only delivered a valuable ezine, he also
embedded his products on the backend. Did it work? Well, I am pretty
critical of such things but I value what Cory says, and I went for the
bait. Yes, even fellow Internet marketers get reeled in on occasion. I
will have to follow his example and use the same tactic with my products
and services!

Good luck building your list,

Kindra Martinenko
Owner, Cascades Internet Solutions
Website Promotion Services and Consulting


==============N e w P o s t i n g (1)=============

From: Terry Tyson
Subject: Direct E-Mail Advertising

Hello, I am writing to see if anyone has any experience with Direct e-mail
advertising and may be able to help me. I want to try this type of
marketing and I need to start with a small budget. I do not have my own
list at this time.

Thanks, any suggestions will really help.

Terry Tyson


==============N e w P o s t i n g (2)=============

From: Frank Szymanik
Subject: Casino Advertising


Do you have any advice on advertising a casino. I am doing that now,
but I am new to this and open for suggestions.

Frank Szymanik


=====================Site Review Request (0)===============

=====================Site Review Response (1.1)===============

From: Ian Hardy

Response to Mr. Towle's Comments

Mike-- Thanks for the help! I will get on your suggestions within the next
day or two! Anyone else have anything that they wish to add....please do!

Ian Hardy




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=====================G u e s t A r t i c l e (1)===============

The Proper Bait
By Bob Osgoodby

Every year about this time, we make our annual pilgrimage to the
waters of the Atlantic to go striped bass fishing. Loading the
boat with all the essentials, such as something cool to quaff and
piles of sandwiches, we grab our rods and reels and sally forth.

But wait - did we forget something? Sure did - we need to have
bait. What are they biting on this time of year?

Fortunately there is a bait shop on the way out, so we tie up to
the dock and go inside. There we talk with the owner who tells
us they are biting on several different kinds, so taking his
advice we buy several. At first we each use a different kind, and
if they seem to favor one bait over the other, we all start using
the one that is attracting the fish.

Hmm - sounds familiar doesn't it. We do the same thing when
trying to lure customers into our online offers. Like in
fishing, you need the essentials in your business. Our web site
and email programs can be compared to the fishing equipment, but
we have to have the proper bait. This is where your advertising
comes in. Your ads are your bait, and you will need to use
different ads to attract different customers.

Writing ads is a skill you must master if you wish your online
business to prosper. There has been a lot written about writing
effective ads. Sometimes what might be considered a bad ad by the
pros is one that actually works. Why you might ask? Different
styles appeal to different people, and you have to realize, that
while the web might provide a level playing field for
entrepreneurs, the likes and dislikes of potential customers are
vary widely.

While "Glitz", and exaggerated earnings claims might appeal to
some, to others it is a turn off. Wild claims about earnings
potential might gather some prospects, but will be an automatic
"click away" for others who prefer a low key approach. You must
experiment with different ad copy, and keep records of what is

There are many ways to do this, and some suggest that you have
multiple web sites geared towards ads that are running. In your
ads, you point your visitors to different sites and by keeping
statistics, you can see which ads are working.

But here is the dilemma. Depending on any number of factors,
visitors could be coming from places other than your ads, and the
results might be misleading. If, for example, a search engine
picks up one site and not the other, you will obviously have more
visitors to the site that has been indexed.

Bluntly, hits to your web site don't really count - sales do.
Your first job however, is to get visitors to your site. This is
done through a variety of methods, including advertising, the use
of search engines and email. Once you get them there, you must
then sell them on your product.

On our web sites, we have an "after sale" questionnaire and we
simply ask them how they found us. Now these people have decided
to do business with us, and their answers will most likely be
truthful. We then log this information, which helps us determine
what advertising is working.

Ads that don't appear to be pulling, we modify until we start
seeing positive results. One of the best places to test your ads
is in ezine publications that are highly targeted toward your
potential customers. I don't recommend ads in publications that
are not targeted to your prospects. Unless you have a very
generalized product, the return you get in these will most likely
be minimal. More importantly, you won't get sufficient
information to determine if the actual copy is working.

Many people have been advertising in the same ezines for years.
Remember that there is some "thrashing" that occurs, and some
people drop off the subscription list for the publication, but
others are added. This gives you a constant new group of people
who will read your ad every time it is published.

Experienced online entrepreneurs will even keep the same copy
year after year if it is pulling. It usually takes 5 to 7
exposures anyway until they receive "brand identification."
When someone is willing to "bite", if they have the proper ad,
they will remember them. To land your customers, like in fishing,
you must have the proper bait.


Did you know that subscribers to Bob Osgoodby's Free Ezine the
"Tip of the Day" get a Free Ad for their Business at his Web
Site? Great Business and Computer Tips - Monday. Wednesday. and
Friday. Instructions on how to place an ad are in the Newsletter.
Subscribe at:


=====================Joke of the Day (1)===============

The Art Collector

A famous art collector is walking through the city when he
notices a mangy cat lapping milk from a saucer in the doorway of
a store and he does a double take.

He knows that the saucer is extremely old and very valuable, so
he walks casually into the store and offers to buy the cat for
two dollars.

The store owner replies, "I'm sorry, but the cat isn't for sale.

The collector says, "Please, I need a hungry cat around the house
to catch mice. I'll pay you twenty dollars for that cat."

And the owner says "Sold," and hands over the cat.

The collector continues, "Hey, for the twenty bucks I wonder if
you could throw in that old saucer. The cat's used to it and
it'll save me from having to get a dish."

And the owner says, "Sorry buddy, but that's my lucky saucer. So
far this week I've sold sixty-eight cats."



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