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                                          Moderator, John Olson
                                  Vol. 1 issue #401 June, 17, 2004

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Topics in this issue:
Sponsor Message
Word from Moderator
** Contest **

C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n s (2)
1. Viral Affiliate Programs?
~ Geoff Dodd
~ Morris Swinamer

2. Affiliates beware the bait and switch
~ Mireille Carrier

3. Product pricing
~  Mireille Carrier

4. Greetings and feedback
~ Rose Phyland

5. Is this more hype?
~ Morris Swinamer
~ Judie Urquhart

N e w P o s t s (0)

Site Review Requests (0)

Site Review Responses (0)

G u e s t A r t i c l e (1)
1. Jump Through Hoops
By Bob Osgoodby

Joke of the Day

================== Word from Moderator ====================
Welcome to the 1,057 new subscribers since last week..

Hello there,

It's that time again, and I've got to think of something to write in this

So here goes... There have been a couple of replies to Robert Lee's Guest
Article last week and I want to make a comment. I believe Robert was
talking more about affiliate programs, like the ones you sign up for
through Link Share or Commission Junction, and not MLM type programs that
you may or may not have to pay to join in order to be able to promote
their products or services.

There is a difference, a big difference.

When I affiliate with a site like "Mrs. Fields" and place a banner or
two on my site, it costs me nothing but space and time to place the
banner. And I have to trust in "Mrs. Fields"  and Link Share or Commission
Junction to be honest with any traffic and possible sales that result from
that traffic.

That is different from some MLM program I might affiliate with and send
traffic to. It is a different type of relationship.

John Olson
Moderator Adland Digest
See my page at AdlandPro Community


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** The Contest to Name the Adland Community **

We are almost there. Look for more next time.
And thanks for all the entries and your time.

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From: Geoff Dodd
Subject: Viral Affiliate Programs?

Hi John,

Do you have to represent ALL the programs?

No, in fact you can choose which of the 2 Tier
programs you join and represent - and ONLY those
ones will be shown in your box ads.

The quality is there. For example, include Corey's
IMC, and Nitro-Mktg., if you wish, or simply leave
your code out for them, update, and your ads will
be limited to what you want. It would even run OK
with only a SINGLE 2 Tier program included!

Russell Brunson has done a fine job here. Only prob.
is that everyone's home page, cat or dog site will
ALL be monetized soon!

And will the S.E. gods frown down on an idea that
may threaten Ad Words popularity? It's like a kind
of mutation of an A-W clone. Time will Tell. But it's
not a CONTENT sensor. It's only about marketing.

Geoff Dodd


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From: Morris Swinamer
Subject: Viral Affiliate Programs?


I agree with your take on viral affiliate programs too!

I'd like to add also that although many affiliate programs are Free to
get started...if ya want to get anywhere with them, you are going to have
to part with some of your hard earned bucks at upgrade-time. My question
is, "How many people are going to have the money to throw at a bunch of
upgrade subscriptions?"

Geoff, more power to you, if you can profit from viral affiliate programs,
but I'm guessing that most Free sign-ups will be exactly 'that'...Free

Geoff, on your web page it says that it won't cost anything...ever.
Might just be me, but when I see claims like that, the Red Flags and
Sirens go off. In order to make money, someone has to be putting cash
into the pot somewhere. Right?

Maybe I'm just too cautious, but I like to do my homework before I join
anything and if it looks too good to be true, then it's a good guess
that it is, too good to be true.

Geoff, you said it yourself, "It's the same old story -you gotta have
the numbers and work in the thousands to make the Net work!"
Regardless of the type of program, that part still remains. :)

All the best to you Geoff!

Morris Swinamer
If you haven't built your AdlandPro Community Page yet, why not?



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)============
From:  Mireille Carrier
Subject: Affiliates beware the bait and switch

I pretty much agree with all you're saying but I have a few comments.

You say:

"Have you ever gone into a retail store looking for that advertised
super deal on a stereo, a TV or whatever and been told that it's out of
stock, of poor quality or some other excuse then encouraged to buy a more
expensive item?"

This type of misleading advertising is illegal in Canada.  The Canadian
Code of Advertising Standards is pretty clear on advertising do's and
Don'ts. Sometimes the advertiser is told to pull the advertisement
IMMEDIATELY and it stops there.  Other times, there is a law suit from
consumers and/or other merchant retailers.  You see it on the news here
every now and then. However, there is no regulation on the internet.
Everything and anything goes.

You also talk about cookies and how affiliates could be losing out on
sales and referrals on the internet.  I talk extensively about that and
how to try to avoid being ripped off by "illegal" applications at .  Find out what/who is
stealing from you, how it's done, how to avoid it, why search engines are
now taking a stand on these issues, and what spyware removal products you
should NEVER recommend to anyone if you want to make money online.  Not
all of them erase cookies... If you want free stuff, you get exactly
what you pay for.

As for the affiliate programs people choose to promote online, they are
their best enemy in most cases.  Too many don't bother to look at the
program at all, or don't understand it and never ask any questions. 
They want to be told what they want to hear, and that doesn't necessarily
mean the truth.

When you join a program, you have to accept their terms and conditions.
If there are some to which you object for any reason, don't join!  If
you don't read them... then who's REALLY to blame?? But if you decide to
become a member, you have no excuse to cry later for their unethical
practices. Just READ and try to UNDERSTAND what they're telling you and
EXACTLY what you'll be promoting BEFORE you join.  I can't say that

The ONLY way to test affiliate links to see if you get credit for
referrals or sales is to either join the program yourself under yourself,
or make a personal purchase.  Otherwise, you're only speculating and
guessing.  This has been debated time and time again at .  You'll see many
posts from affiliates who have done "test purchases" and reported
merchants who tracked the sales and those that didn't.

If you (talking to no one in particular) want to succeed on the internet,
surround yourself with successful people.  The one who knows it all but
doesn't make a dime is not going to be your best ally.


Everything you need to know about working from home
Make your garden the envy of the neighborhood


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)============
From: Product pricing
Subject: Mireille Carrier

Expensive vs inexpensive products,
This isn't 100% foolproof and is inaccurate. *sigh*  Although true for
many, personal circumstances will often define the way people shop. I'm
not talking about MLM here, but shopping in general in every day life.

If you're talking about someone who has never had two dimes to rub
together, works for minimum wage and can barely make the ends meet, or
has very little money for one reason or another, yes this scenario is
probably true. They just can't afford better and in some instances, they
wouldn't know the difference because they were never able to afford to buy
quality anything.

I have friends like that (single parents and elderly).  Life circumstances
hit some people harder than others.  While for a few others it's just
plain laziness, or the fear of the unknown to do better in life.
Regardless of their poor life situation, it's still a security blanket
because that's all they've ever known. Believe it or not, many people
are afraid to succeed.  And then there are some who will still find the
money to buy EXACTLY what they want, and if it's brand name over generic,
they will still get it.

On the other hand, if you're talking about working individuals and/or
couples with decent jobs, earning a moderate to better income, and then
one day one is laid off or fired, or another life event prevents them
from working, your scenario will be inaccurate in most cases.

When times are tough, people want QUALITY because they want something
that will last a long time.  Cheap is most often associated with something
that is temporary or will need to be replaced sooner than later, which is
something they can no longer afford to do.

MANY will do without rather than buy cheap and/or low quality. THAT is a
marketing fact that is taught in university and supported by market
research and studies.

When K-Mart (or was it Walmart? can't remember which one) came to market,
they thought they would flourish in rough financial times.  They were
SHOCKED that they were doing so badly when the economy was low.  They
couldn't understand why when people had no money to spend they were
going for the more expensive items rather than shop for bargains at their
stores. BUT when people had MORE money and economy was pretty stable,
their sales skyrocketed!

Pretty simple. When there is good cash flow in a household, people don't
care as much if they have to replace something in a few months or if it
doesn't last as long as it should.  They have money to buy MORE stuff
they WANT, NOT need. They want quantity over quality. When there is little
money available, people don't normally spend on stuff they want, they
buy what they NEED. And when this is the case, more often than not quality
will rule over price although they will still shop for the best price
for the quality product they want to buy.

Shopping and buying are PERSONAL decisions.  People who only buy
according to price and think that cheaper is always better are no more
wrong OR right than those who buy high end, high priced items.  People do
what they want to do. Period. Depending on what I'm shopping for, I've
belonged in both categories my entire life and I have no plans to change
the way I shop.

I've always said that people will always have money for whatever they
WANT to have money for IF the desire is strong enough.


Everything you need to know to work from home
Make your garden the envy of the neighborhood



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)============
From: Rose Phyland
Subject: Greetings and feedback

Hi Yvette,

My target group are people who need to lose weight. Many of these fit
into your target group. Are you interested in doing a banner exchange?

For your free weightloss profile visit


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)============
From: Morris Swinamer
Subject: Is this more hype?

Hi Bryan!

It's Great that you have learned some valuable lessons from the
Empowerism training center.

Having said that, I would also add that, regardless of what the training
centers say, sometimes the most valuable lessons will be learned the "Hard
Way." I can make that statement truthfully!

I've learned many lessons, 'The Hard Way' and finally, when I realized
that the money was going 'Out' faster than the money coming 'In', I
smartened up and began to listen to Real People who had already realized
some level of success on the Web. I got caught up in the hype and failed
miserably, simply because I didn't do my due diligence (my homework) and
check out all the details.

You said, "Recently they started a lead buy program where you get double
your money back. My question is can this be done successfully and if so
how can they do it? Is this all hype? Will this be another money loosing
system, like sooo many around?"

Bryan, I think you might have answered your question, with your question.

Correct me if I am wrong, but...I think that in order for that system to
work as they describe it, You 1st. must be a paid subscriber of
Empowerism? Then you must buy the leads packages? Then before you can
make any money, those leads have to become paid subscribers and purchase
leads packages too?

Whatever you decide to do in the end, Use Caution and Do your homework!

I wish you much success!


Morris Swinamer
If you haven't built your Adland Community Page yet, why not?


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.2)============
From: Judie Urquhart
Subject: Is this more hype?

This in regards to Bryan about another hype.  It is really hard to tell
what is hype or not.  I am also wondering about another company being
hype or not.

I know it is very low-key MLM and good for, I guess, people who are at
the age who don't need to make lots of money and not work hard and doing
a lot of sign up.  But I guess there are ones who are making lots of money
I am not yet.

I found this company to be the best for what it is worth.  Very cheap
and people sign people up under you and believe it or not you can make
money not signing up people.  And I know that is true because it happen to
me. I couldn't figure out where this small check came from and then I call
the company (toll free) and then they told me.  I guess it is only a 2X2
matrix and only $12 a month.  So, I fell for it and got money.

Take a look and see what you think.  And I know the haters for MLM will
have a field day with this.



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=====================G u e s t A r t i c l e (1)===============
Jump Through Hoops
By Bob Osgoodby

First impressions are extremely important if you hope to do
business on the Web. After you refine your ads, and if you make
your pitch to a targeted group, you will start to get visitors to
your web site. Here is where many would be entrepreneurs drop
the ball.

Putting up a web site is not a difficult task, but designing a
good one is, and if you don't pay attention, it might be working
against you. Think about it, the web site is not only the first
impression of you and your business, it is crucial to your
success or failure.

People don't waste a whole lot of time when visiting a site. If
it isn't professional looking, they may just "click away". While
looks are important, you must spend time on developing good copy.

Copy written by affiliate programs has been seen over and over,
and while it may have been effective at one time, it is so
overused that people immediately recognize it for what it is.

In addition to good copy which of course, has no spelling,
grammar or punctuation errors, it has to clearly state what you
are offering. Many web sites offer a real challenge to try to
figure out what they are trying to sell. The offer should be the
first thing they see. The information must also flow logically,
and not leave a lot of questions unanswered.

Equally important is obvious contact information. A physical
address, and an email address go a long way to assuaging any
fears someone may have.

In addition to complete information on your offer, it must have a
call to action, which entices the visitor to purchase from you.
It must also have an order form, or instructions that are easy to
follow. It is also a real plus to let the prospect know a little
bit about you. Your picture on the site can go a long way to help
instill confidence.

There is some confusion on the value of links. Some advocate
that a good web site should be divided into separate sections
connected by links. Others feel that a single long web page will
score higher in the search engine rankings.

There are basically two types of links. One goes to a completely
separate web page, and is considered an external link. Another
type is referred to as an internal link. These, point to
different "parts" within the same web page. Both have value,
however internal links are a little friendlier. If someone clicks
on one and the next "part" logically flows from the previous one,
people will be more inclined to read on.

While it is a good idea to have your links on the left side of
the page, you should avoid the use of frames, which divides the
page into two logical pieces that can be independently
manipulated.  Frames were all the rage a few years ago, but have
fallen into disuse today.

Links should be clear as to where they will take you. It is
crucial that the titles of the links, not only make sense, but
actually take someone to that information. Each site should have
links that are unique, and it is not a good idea to have
information in the target, that is not specified in the link.

If you have someone design the site for you, remember that their
expertise is in web site design, and most likely they will know
little, if anything, about your business. They can construct
the site and make it look good, but the copy and information flow
is your responsibility. You should always take a break from the
copy writing, and if at all possible, have someone else proof
your work for grammar. Also you have to be careful of words that
pass spell check, but are actually incorrect usage. Don't
confuse words like "there" and "their."

Once you have the basic framework finished, it is now time to
test it. Try to corral as many people as possible to review it.
Is it clear and an effective presentation? You should probably
avoid friends unless you are sure they will give you an honest

The first impression your web site makes is crucial to success.
If people have to "jump through hoops" to find out about your
offer, or if it doesn't portray a professional image, the odds
are they won't buy.


Did you know that subscribers to Bob Osgoodby's Free Ezine the
"Tip of the Day" get a Free Ad for their Business at his Web
Site? Great Business and Computer Tips - Monday. Wednesday. and
Friday. Instructions on how to place an ad are in the Newsletter.
Subscribe at:


=====================Joke of the Day (1)===============


TEACHER: Why are you late?
WEBSTER: Because of the sign.
TEACHER: What sign?
WEBSTER: The one that says, "School Ahead - Go Slow."

TEACHER: Cindy, why are you doing your math multiplication
on the floor?
CINDY: You told me to do it without using tables!

TEACHER: John, how do you spell "crocodile?"
TEACHER: No, that's wrong
JOHN: Maybe it s wrong, but you asked me how I spell it!

TEACHER: What is the chemical formula for water?
TEACHER: What are you talking about?
SARAH: Yesterday you said it's H to O!

TEACHER: George, go to the map and find North America.
GEORGE: Here it is!
TEACHER: Correct. Now class, who discovered America?
CLASS: George!

TEACHER: Willie, name one important thing we have today
that we didn't have ten years ago.

TEACHER: Tommy, why do you always get so dirty?
TOMMY: Well, I'm a lot closer to the ground than you are.

TEACHER: Ellen, give me a sentence starting with "I."
ELLEN: I is...
TEACHER: No, Ellen...Always say, "I am."
ELLEN: All right..."I am the ninth letter of the

TEACHER: "Can anybody give an example of COINCIDENCE?"
JOHNNY: "Sir, my Mother and Father got married on the same
day, same time."

TEACHER: "George Washington not only chopped down his
father's cherry tree, but also admitted doing it. Now do
you know why his father didn't punish him?"
JOHNNY: "Because George still had the ax in his hand."

TEACHER: Now, Sam, tell me frankly, do you say prayers
before eating?
SAM: No sir, I don't have to, my Mom is a good cook.

TEACHER: Desmond, your composition on "My Dog" is exactly
same as the your brother's. Did you copy his?
DESMOND: No, teacher, it's the same dog!

TEACHER: What do you call a person who keeps on talking
when people are no longer interested?
PUPIL: A teacher.

SYLVIA: Dad, can you write in the dark?
FATHER: I think so. What do you want me to write?
SYLVIA: Your name on this report card



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