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                                         Moderator, Amalia Sotiriadou
                                         Vol. 1 issue #406 July 15, 2004


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Welcome to the 962 new subscribers this week!

Topics in this issue:
Word from Moderator

Continuing Discussions (6)
Re: Auto surf vs. manual traffic exchanges
Cathy Wagner

Re: Response to Richard Ward True To Form
Elizabeth Sinclair
Cathy Wagner

Re: Trouble getting started (Shawn Hansen)
Bob Teske
Larry Strait
Cathy Wagner

New Discussions (3)
Mailing List
Judie Urquhart

Sad times for the MLM industry
William Jaroske

Postcards and Great Website
Karen Nelson

Site Review Requests   (0)

Site Review Responses (1)
Re: Reply to Shawn.Aka
From: Shirley Turetsky

G u e s t   A r t i c l e    (1)
Zero-Cost To Actual Cost To Personalization And Fraud!
S. Kumar

Joke of the Day


Word from Moderator:

I hope my second try at formatting the Digest comes out looking better than the first one!
Have we become so "spoiled" by modern technology I wonder, that it's hard to go back
to old habits? Remember the good-old typewriter with the "return" button you actually had
to PRESS to get to the next line? I haven't used THAT ONE for a while! How about
PROOFREADING what you write? Do you leave that to your word processor or do you do
some of it yourself? I wonder where the confusion with all the "there", "their", "they're"
and all the "to", "too" and "two"s come from? I have just been reminded of all of that since
the Digest needs a lot more editing attention than the programs I have been using lately.

This in not an English class, however, it is an Internet Marketing discussion list, and I for
one, intend to concentrate on this subject.

I am a firm believer in creating win-win situations within the business environment.
Perhaps this is a "woman thing", I don't know. Nevertheless, I would never feel good
about making money if  I wasn't certain that those who are giving me their money are
either getting a good value for it, or have the opportunity to gain at least as much as I do.

Since this is the summer (in the northern hemisphere anyway) let's "relax" a bit and
consider what types of  business relationships, joint ventures, earning programs, etc., have
the potential for win-win situations and how WE as individuals can help promote these
types of relationships instead of the typical "buyer beware" ones that traditionally exist?

I'm looking forward to your feedback and hopefully the start of a lively discussion!

Amalia Sotiriadou
Adland Digest
My AdLandPro Community page:




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Continuing Discussions (6)
===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============

RE: Auto surf vs. manual traffic exchanges
From: Cathy Wagner

I do not recommend buying hits at any traffic exchanges.
William makes a good point about autosurfers being worthless and in my opinion, they are.
If you are using them so you can generate credits while you're not at your computer, what
do you think others are doing? The same. They will not see your site. I have also gotten
viruses from autosurf programs. Don't bother.
Even manual traffic generators do not yield the results they used to. Unless your web page
loads quickly and gets right to the point with a way to capture email addresses in the top
portion that is visible upon loading, they are a waste of time. The only time that it might be
a good idea to buy credits on a manual traffic exchange is after you have gotten good
results for free.
Have a Profitable Day,
Cathy Wagner
Online Business Expert
Providing Freedom-Seeking Entrepreneurs with
Low-Risk, Online Profit-Building Guidance.



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============

Response to Richard Ward
From: Elizabeth Sinclair


It makes me so angry when I read a post like yours. Companies should not be online just to
rip people off. You said that you had an attorney at one point. Does your attorney think
there is any more legal action you can take? You might also want to go back to that site and
read All of the fine print. They may have something in their terms of service that says they
cannot be held responsible.

Secondly, do you now own the domain name and the casino website? If so, feel free to
email me at We can find some good casino ebooks to give away,
I can help you write some articles and we can come up with your own, original contest
(absolutely no charge). With the amount of money that you spent, I truly hope you own
the domain name and website.
Custom-made ebook covers and Banners
Reap Your Financial Rewards Through Resell Rights


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============

Re: True To Form
From: Cathy Wagner

Hi Richard,
I read your story with shock and sadness. I am constantly appalled at some of the
underhanded dealings I encounter online, but I think your story is the worst I have heard! 
I wonder if you had actually managed to earn anything with your casino site if you would
have seen your 70%.
Other beginners should know that $1200 for a web site is absolutely outrageous. I don't
think it's a good idea to pay to sell someone else's product. I believe paid programs are
really for people who already have online business experience and a good opt-
in mailing list.
Also, $300 is the going price for bulk emailing, not $600. Even at that price, the results they
usually promise, of one sale per 10,000 messages sent, are totally dependant on your ad
copy. And bulk email services cannot insure your safety against SPAM complaints. I don't
care what they tell you, if someone has not specifically said, "Richard, send me your offer,"
they have not opted in and you can get into trouble.
I think you should pursue these people to try to get at least part of your money back. It
probably won't be easy, but there are ways. I have a friend who is very good at tracking
sneaky people online, if you want his email address, please contact me via my web site
I haven't used the Adland Pro e-book, but I can give you a recommendation for a free
autoresponder that will respond to incoming messages or follow up with your prospects
>From now on, do and learn as much as you can for free. :)
Have a Profitable Day,
Cathy Wagner
Online Business Expert
Providing Freedom-Seeking Entrepreneurs with
Low-Risk, Online Profit-Building Guidance.



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============

RE: Trouble getting started (Shawn Hansen)
From: Bob Teske

Hello Shawn,

I checked out your website, and I can see the dilemma that you're in.
I've been there -- and IN that particular affiliate program.  I'm not there any more, but that's
a story for another time.

However, I would like to offer you a few words of middle-aged wisdom (I'm 50), and I
hope that it helps.

You know that there's no getting around the fact that an affiliate program is a glorified way
of saying that you are involved in multi-level-marketing, don't you?

I'm in the mail order business myself, and I sell both digital information as well as tangible
novelty gifts and specialty merchandise, and the one thing that I had to get through my
thick head was that I was not in a get rich quick business.

I was, and still am, involved with a few affiliate programs, but I do not rely on them.  Hey,
sometimes I get lucky and get a commission check to cover lunch at McDonald's.  I figure
that sooner or later, if somebody stumbles into my websites and they see something they
want, they'll buy it.

I was involved in multi-level-marketing, as an Amway Distributor, and you always had to
keep in mind -- and this bothered a lot of the uplines -- "Some won't, some will, so

You want to make money on the internet? Create your OWN niche, your OWN product or
product line.  Who was that said, "You will never get rich working for somebody else.  You
need to have a business of your own." Ah, yes, that was J. Paul Getty.  As an affiliate, you
are in all reality working for someone else.  They get the lion's share, you get a tiny

Here's a couple of the $2.00 reports that I occasionally get requests for.
I'm putting them in this reply to you, not only for you but for others out there who may be
experiencing the same feelings and problems that you are.

Here they are:


What's so wrong with MLM? There are a lot of people who won't get involved with MLM
plans because they lack the deep down enthusiasm that's needed for the long term in a
MLM environment.

A lot of people who want to try a product being sold by MLM sometimes get turned off
because of the "networking/business" aspect of MLM. Why can't I just be a consumer
without becoming a "network" participant, without being assigned to a marketing level.

MLM businesses can be better off if only they advertise their product and have less
emphasis on recruiting their downline.

In fact, I never see advertising for products _ just the invitation to join someone's downline.
It's because most MLM organizations are set up with "money" being the deriving force in
their business.

They make more money by recruiting people into the program and the purchase of
marketing materials and sales aides. While this is not true with all MLM companies _ it is
true for most of them.

Did you ever get one of those announcements in the mail for free tickets to a seminar that
claims to set you up in business? Have you ever attended one? Well let me tell you _ the
speaker is trained to push and motivate their audience. Most people are hit with such a sales
pitch that they almost run each other over buying the starter kit for $349.95 at the end of the
meeting. Then, when they get home they want to shoot themselves for buying something
that still doesn't put them in business. It's sad for the average guy or gal who really just
wants to make some honest money in a business of their own.

Wouldn't it seem logical _ if someone put together a catalog of products that other people
could purchase WITHOUT joining into a MLM program? In fact, they could generate some
sales for their products instead. What holds them back from doing so? It is the fact that the
organization wants people to sell the $349.95 package today because the $5.95 order for the
product itself doesn't make them any money?

Please understand that I'm not talking about every company out on the market. Watkins,
NuSkin, Nutrition for Life and Golden Pride/Rawleigh each have catalogs of products you
can buy without joining their program.

The only problem is that you don't see very many ads for them. Instead you find ads that
state "Make money with me and increase your income." or "Earn a new car within the next

Back in the 1940's if you picked up a mail order magazine you saw REAL products you
could order from REAL people. If you wanted a saw blade for your saw, you sent in a
check and ordered one. You didn't join downlines to sell the saw blades to others in your
area. Now _ if you want a blade for your saw you'd have to either wade through so much
hype and bull that you may never find one. Instead, you just rely on Montgomery Ward or

See people _ money is being lost in the regular world of mail order simply because there
are no REAL ads being run for REAL products. Pick up a mail order tabloid and you'll see
immediately what I'm talking about. Why is everyone selling everyone else's stuff? What
happened to our individual creativity? Most of the answer lies in the fact that so much hype
is being pushed on the general public it is ridiculous. People come on TV and tell you that
you can make millions of dollars by running tiny little classified ads. They show you scenes
of people relaxing on their yachts and making huge bank deposits. Society makes the mail
order business world look like something easy, carefree and non-tiring!

But perhaps, if I purchased a REAL product and loved it so much I might be enthused
enough to join the MLM concept later on down the road Wouldn't the ultimate goal of
building a downline be accomplished also while at the same time selling the product?

#2 - The Truth About Multi-Level Marketing Programs

Multi-level marketing is a fancy name currently being used by some companies in an effort
to do two things. The first objective is to move products from their warehouses, and thus
increase their sales volume. The second objective is to recruit "an army" of commission-
only sales people.

Make no mistake about it! After you've stripped all the hoopla and falderal away from these
"super money-making opportunities", the bottom line remains the same - you make money
from commissions allowed from the sale of products.

Generally speaking, very few people have any "real" sales experience, and thus, if offered
the opportunity to take a job as a commission-only sales person, they'd run from it like the

At the same time, most commission-only sales positions are "direct selling" opportunities.
And, the definition of direct selling begins with an explanation of what a door-to-door sales
person does.

Don't get me wrong... A lot of personal fortunes have been amassed by commission-only
sales people. For sure, when you attempt to sell by mail, you're almost always involved in
commission selling, and direct selling. What I'm saying is that most people are "duped" into
joining multi-level marketing programs without understanding that it is commission sales
and at least a form of door-to-door selling.

Worse than "duping you into joining their programs..." Almost all multi-level marketing
companies subtly encourage you to break the law, and run the risk of huge monetary fines,
long terms in prison, or both! This is done by at least, "inferring" that if you will find a
number of people to duplicate what you're doing, and in turn encourage each new enrolee
to keep the system going, everybody will get rich!

Not so, my friend! That's a "Ponzi Scheme", and if you don't really understand what a Ponzi
Scheme is - allow me a moment to explain:

Such a scheme is any kind of money-making opportunity where you get paid by recruiting,
enlisting or soliciting other people to follow your lead and continue a chain of events. In
other words, you'll be paid a commission from the people you recruit -1; from the people
they recruit -2; from the people they recruit-3; and on into infinity.

This is the "secret" impact that most multi-level marketing companies use to induce you to
buy into their program. Such practices are illegal, and subject to federal laws which could
destroy you. So called, bi-level marketing plans are the same thing, as are chain letters, and
people-helping people clubs. They're all based upon the Ponzi Scheme. If you have any
doubts, take your money-making opportunity and sit down with your local postmaster and
discuss it's legality.

These things are illegal because if - as in a dream world - they really worked, by the time
one person had attained level number five, he would have "signed" everybody on the face
of the earth with only the first two levels receiving any of the money. There would be
nobody left for the third, fourth and fifth levels to sell to.

Multi-level marketing companies get around the law by stating within their by-laws that it
is strictly forbidden to promote or attempt to sell the program by mail. Then, when the
postal inspectors come calling on the little guy, the MLM company says: He did it - we
don't do such things - here, look at our by-laws.

The bottom line is as old as the hills: you can do anything you want - legal or illegal - so
long as you don't get caught - but when you do get caught, you'd better be prepared to pay
the price. Besides the terrible mess multi-level marketing has gotten a lot of normally law-
abiding & moral people into, it has "foisted" upon these people personality changes that
many of them do not like.

To make any money selling a product or service on a commission-only basis, you have to
have the ability to sell like the proverbial "used car salesman". It's all hard sell, and more
often than not, involves "forcing" the prospect to buy whether it's good for him or not.

Anyone who has ever attempted to succeed in commission sales, knows that it takes a
product in great demand - a great deal of sales calls, advertising and persistence - at least a
little bit of failure - and a tremendous amount of "total business moxie" to make any money
at it.

There's nothing wrong with commission selling - and if you're good at it, you can make a
lot of money with this kind of selling - but remember that multi-level marketing is
commission selling - the way "distributors" are recruited is very illegal, with the authorities
closing down more MLM companies every day - and it takes a special kind of personality
to succeed at it.

I hope you find this information helpful, Shawn.

Good Luck.

Bob Teske

Robert K. "Bob" Teske
Teske Enterprises & Subsidiaries

Moderator's Comment: I debated on whether to include this post for two reasons:
1. It is way too long for a Digest, and
2. Bob Teske speaks from a mail-order marketing viewpoint rather than from an Internet
Marketing viewpoint. I decided to include it, however, since his points are well-taken and
may produce some constructive discussion from the list.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.2)=============

RE: Trouble Getting Started
From: Larry Strait

 I try not to advertise my own site here, but this time I think it applies. I'm in an affiliate
program and I placed on my site a free book called "30 Days to Success" to help people get
started. I use it myself, if it's not what your looking for, you can always delete it later.
Larry Strait



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.3)=============

Re: Trouble Getting Started
From: Cathy Wagner

Hi Shawn,
I read your post and I feel for you. Getting started is the hardest part.
You say you've tried a variety of advertising methods and they haven't worked for you.
Does that mean that people respond to your ads by visiting your site, but they don't buy?
Or does it mean they don't respond at all?
If they don't respond at all, you will have to rethink your ad copy. Be sure to stress the
benefits or what people will get out of your offer (such as more money, freedom, time, etc.)
If they are visiting your site but not buying, that is another story. I checked your site and
there are a number of things I would change.
To start with, the AOL Hometown across the top makes it look like a free site and that
simply does not inspire confidence. If your programs are working for you, you should be
able to afford a paid site. (A paid site is not very expensive anymore. You can get a domain
name for I think $8 and a year's worth of hosting for $10 at )
I see some code at the very top of your page just below the AOL bit.
Your page is pretty empty. The photo is nice, but there is no information. Your link titles
are provocative, but you don't give any kind of explanation why people should click them.
I recognize your links as SFI products, why don't you mention that? Do you believe in these
products? Are they working for you? Tell us about it. Get us excited. Help us imagine
enjoying the same results as you.
Also, there are many, many ways to promote a business online besides free classifieds and
pay-per-click search engines. I suggest you check out the articles and free material at my
site to get a better idea of all the different options
Yes, this internet online marketing business really does work, but it takes more than putting
up a few links on a free web site. You need to develop your content, work on your
advertising skills, and keep plugging away until you get it right. You are building a
business and, online or off, it takes work and commitment.
Have a Profitable Day,
Cathy Wagner
Online Business Expert
Providing Freedom-Seeking Entrepreneurs with
Low-Risk, Online Profit-Building Guidance.




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New Discussions  (3)

==============N e w P o s t i n g (1)=============

Mailing List
From: Judie Urquhart

Does anyone know of a safe mailing list without having to pay a lot of money and having
to join a program?

I really would like to send MY program out to people who would really like to belong to
a good MLM company, that doesn't cost an arm and leg to join. And you don't need
inventory to sell.

Thanks, Judie


==============N e w P o s t i n g (2)=============

Sad times for the MLM industry
From: William Jaroske

There are certainly a huge number of people that still have no clue of common sense when
it comes to joining and marketing MLM programs, and to be honest. It really is quite sad
that most everybody will just jump into some scheme without giving it a real thought about
doing diligence. Be it TNI, Freelife or Amway. Logic tells it if you run the numbers of
recruiting other people in some MLM program. The odds are that it will be next to
impossible that you can make loads of money fast or get rich quick. But some people's
logical thinking can be flawed.

The other dilemma is that being the MLM industry gets demonized a lot is not because
people don't understand the concept. Main reason is many MLM companies are allowed to
run rogue operations deceiving millions of unsuspecting people.

With all the fruit juice, nutritional supplements, miracle health cures.
Many of them don't have scientific proof that the product works. The vast majority only
rely on testimonials to sell the product. But in a lot of cases testimonials can be doctored
enough to convince a great many that it might be a miracle cure product similar to snake oil
sold in the old days.

Now about the pay structures of the MLM companies. Most of them don't really have good
enough structure to pay the rep reasonably. Binaries are structured to pay out in minimal
commissions and bonuses. With matrix pay plans. Everyone thinks they will get tons of
spillover without working the program. Even stair step breakaways are also poorly
designed. Most commonly the pay plans are structured to make the company wealthy and
not you. and their are a great deal more badly conceived programs and plans that are not
worth even touching. let alone buying the products that have very little worth in the market

It has come upon sad times for the MLM industry. A lot of people just have no real clue
what they got themselves into. Many just fall head over heels because of hype and
misleading information that the company provided them. Quite a few fall for schemes over
and over again. And they prove that to thousands of people by the way talk, act, and discuss

William Jaroske

Alarming Facts about poverty


==============N e w P o s t i n g (3)=============

Postcards and Great Website
From: Karen Nelson

I have an idea for how to keep track of all of your websites and which ones you think are
top notch.  Use note cards or recipe cards and categories each sight by subject.  Then I use a
star system to rate the ones I like.  This is a great system if you have a lot of lead
There is also a website that has a lot of marketing tools on it link page.
It is Good luck with your
Karen Nelson
Imoms Independent Marketing Director


Site Review Requests   (0)

Site Review Responses (1)
Re: Reply to Shawn.Aka
From: Shirley Turetsky

Shawn, I am a self-taught web-sites builder. The first thing I learned was that if I wanted to
be taking seriously about a business on-line no matter what kind it is, I must get a domain
name. Your title is way to long for one and before you get crazy about getting visitors to
your business you should really work on your opening page. For me it was way to big and
spread out. That's as far as I got. Maybe that's why your not getting any business. I'm not an
expert, just thought I'd send my opinion. I hope this helps.
My advice for newbies: Don't believe everything you read.
Central Florida's for sale by owner listing place. Do It Yourself FSBO newsletter at



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----------------------------GUEST ARTICLE --------------------------

Zero-Cost To Actual Cost To Personalization And Fraud!

(c) Copyright S. Kumar 2004

Personalization! One of the decisive ingredients of a happy life --And equally true for a
Web marketer.

You already know about email personalization. Most of the email that you receive is
personalized with your name for that additional punch.

But did you know that you can 'extend' this same concept even from your emails to your
website and clock improved high as 300%?

Did you know that there exists an easy to way to personalize your sales page and
 autoresponder emails to triple your sales, improve your reputation and cash generation?

Allow me to give you the secret -- The only thing you need to know is just 'Copy & Paste'.

* The Magic Zero-Cost Script*

You can literally address your members, customers or anyone directly by their first name
from your website in a very simple way involving just two steps.

* Step-1: Easily insert a very simple code into your webpage where you want your
customers name to appear.

*Step-2: Now all you have to do is insert a simple "?-Name Tag-" at the end of the URL
that you want you promote.

Note: -Name Tag- means, the personalization tag that you normally use in your
Autoresponder and emails

For e.g. Just replace the "YourName" from the below URL with your name and see how
you are personally addressed on the Web page:

Please download the Webpage/Sales Page personalization script from here with

* The Cost Option Of The Similar Script*
Interestingly, there is also a similar script launched
very recently with much fanfare. But you have to pay
$67. Well! You really do not need to pay for it as it is
available openly. If you have already bought the product,
compare it with the Zero-Cost script given above . Do
you find any difference?

* And The Fraud!*

On Friday, March 26, 2004 10:20 AM, I receive an
email from a youngster in Philippines asking me for a
joint venture with this Web personalization script. He
had noticed from an earlier article of mine.

The deal was, he will productize this script which I
was already giving away and wanted me to stop
promoting that article. I will get a copy of the product
that I can sell. In all humility, I accepted the offer and
waited for the this gentleman to respond.

Some of his sentences in the email were,

"I'm honest and reliable. I try to live with integrity.
That only means that you won't have any problems
dealing with me."

"You don't have to do anything. Just sit back and rest.
Let me do everything. Then I'll send you the finish product!"

Yes! This guy went ahead, finished the product, began
selling it and is joint venturing now on a 7 day stuff ...except
that I never heard from him again nor the finished product.

One more example of dishonest people infesting the
Internet and one more guy to avoid doing business with.

Copyright 2004: S. Kumar,

"Subscribe to the $1000 Gift series today for Zero-Cost
and then decide how much you have potentially saved..."





-----------------JOKE OF THE DAY-------------------

Top 10 Funny Store Signs 

1.Outside a muffler shop: "No appointment necessary, we hear you coming."

2.Outside a hotel: "Help! We need inn-experienced people."

3.On a desk in a reception room: "We shoot every 3rd salesman , and the 2nd one just left."

4.In a veterinarians waiting room: "Be back in 5 minutes, Sit ! Stay!"

5.At the electric company: "We would be de-lighted if you send in your bill. However, if
you don't you will be."

6.On the door of a computer store: "Out for a quick byte."

7.In a restaurant window: "Don't stand there and be hungry, come on in and get fed up."

8.Inside a bowling alley: "Please be quiet, we need to hear a pin drop."

9.In the front yard of a funeral home: "Drive carefully, we'll wait."

10.In a counselors office: "Growing old is mandatory, growing wise is optional.



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