-                                               ADLANDS' DIGEST
                                        A Free subscribed Discussion List
                                                 of 23030 subscribers
                                       on web marketing and promotion
                               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                                          at http://www.adlandpro.com/
                                              Bogdan Fiedur, Publisher
                                                       contact at
                                  http://www.adlandpro.com/adlandpost.htm
                                         Moderator, Amalia Sotiriadou
                                         Vol. 1 issue #415 Sept 17, 2004

 

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Welcome to the 1232 new subscribers this week!

Topics in this issue:
================
Word from the Moderator

Continuing Discussions (7)
======================
1. Re: Juice Boosted
Susan Dorey, Colin Fyfe, William Jaroske

 
2. Re: Stores Online
Susan Dorey

3. Re: Pay-Per-Click Search Engines
Tom Falco, Mike Sullivan

4. Re: Stuart Croll advertising quest?
Mike Sullivan

New Discussions (1)
====================
1. What Sells Better Online?
Amalia Sotiriadou

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GUEST ARTICLE (1)
=================
When M L M's Go Bad, By Dylan Campbell

Joke of the Day
==============


Word from Moderator
------------------------------

It seems that the spam filters have also hit the Digest! Many people did not receive last
week's issue, and I was one of them. As a result, today's responses are rather limited. As
you may already know, past Digest issues are archived here:
http://www.adlandpro.com/archives/issues_2004.htm
As soon as Bogdan shows me how, I will always archive the current issue as soon as it is
mailed to you, so even you haven't received it due to filters, you can go and read it online.
Some of you took my advice last week and already started forums in the AdlandPro
Community. If you haven't seen this new capability yet, please go here:
http://www.adlandpro.com/directad/forumCategories.aspx
(You can open a forum from your personal Community page).
Bogdan and I have discussed the idea of starting a forum for the Digest. It would mean an
even more direct connection between the members of this group. I would like your input.
Do you believe that a forum would help us and would anyone like to participate as co-
moderator for specific subjects? And to make the discussion broader: do you participate in
forums and have they helped you?

Amalia Sotiriadou
Moderator
Adland Digest
My AdLandPro Community page: http://www.adlandpro.com/directad/go/56876/


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===========Continuing Discussions (8) =====================

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============

Re:  Juice Boosted
From: Susan Dorey

I'm following all the posting on Juice-Boosted because I find this company very intriguing. 
I do have my own reasons for believing why they would offer the service free to people in
the beginning....If this company is going after the revenue from search engines like Google
then right from the beginning they will need a large data base to start with....I'm thinking
that for the service to be free of use we might be required to use their search engine, thereby
giving this company automatic revenue...Does this make sense to others?

I am very interested to see how this free service unfolds both as a free connection and a
business opportunity, of course many people will know right off the bat whether they get
paid for the people they have referred to this company.

I look forward to other people's future comments.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Susan Dorey
http://www.juicesupport.com/contact.html  affiliate code fjz3lut 
www.livingwithrheumatoidarthritis.com
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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============

Re: Juice boosted BUSTED ?
From: Colin Fyfe

It would appear that the initial hype of Juice boosted has come crashing down and it didn't
even make it as a Pyramid scheme either, as it has fallen before even building a second
level never mind anything else.

I admit I was curious about Juice boosted when I first read of it and was more interested in
the technical merits than the chance to be an affiliate. The claims made were just far too
outlandish. Remember Breathe.com crashed after offering lifetime free internet dial-up
access for a one of fee of 50. Well it stands to reason that Juice boosted was also doomed
and it wouldn't surprise me if it was all a big hoax anyway.

For decent fast internet access there are many reputable suppliers offering a different range
of packages etc.

If you want to get involved in MLM with a European giant, then look no further than the
business opportunity which is Tiscali Network.
Full details when you take a free tour of my website www.a1.Yourteambuilder.com

Best wishes all,
Colin Fyfe.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Colin Fyfe
Tiscali Network Independent Business Associate
www.a1.Yourteambuilder.com
www.tiscali-network.de/a1
----------------------------------------------------------------


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.3)============

Re: FREE-Juice Boosted Response
From: William Jaroske

Mike Sullivan said:

"Free-Juice is a very appealing claim, as there is no risk to pre-register as a customer or
affiliate. In fact, they claim that those who do register and choose to use software will not
be charged for access to their high speed internet software. That in itself is why some doubt
that the claims are true."

Mike, when program operators start hyping a risk free business. It's time to run the other
way. And for the record, if it is too good to be true. It probably is.


"Is it a scam? This no one knows and with five weeks of claims that it is, I have still seen
no proof or any regulatory agency respond. What would the scam entail given no money
was requested to pre-register or become an affiliate? This does not fit the standard scam
MO, now does it? Usually a scam will hit you up fast and be gone before you know it. So
the intrigue grows and grows on Free-Juice."

If is not a scam, why is it listed on http://www.worldwidescam.com? Seems Mike did not
make an educated business decision after all.

William Jaroske


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)============

Re: Stores Online
From: Susan Dorey

I went to one of the Stores Online seminars.  I stayed for the whole day despite the fact that
I knew they were exaggerating most of what they had to say in relation to ease of building
the site, costs.... wow their claims on what things cost in comparison to what they offer are
outrageous and of course how easy it is to get traffic.

While I was there i watched and many people bought.

I was lucky, prior to going to this seminar I had already begun building my website and I
was there mostly because of Store's OnLine claims to teach you the tricks to getting traffic
instantly.  Well I could get traffic instantly on my site too if I paid for it all but there is a
limit to what one can afford in the beginning.

Rather than using this I found learning to build a "content rich website"
using a program that doesn't require you to know HTML, much better I believe......In the
end I've spent considerably less money and learned how to build a "content rich" website
that attracts visitors.

Was it easy..........NOOOO, I had to do research on my topic and learn how to write
effectively for a web based site.  Of course this information all came with the program I
purchased to host my site.  The website building wasn't particularly difficult but required
reading the information included with this program, and time to get used to the program.  
I have and will continue to learn a lot and for this I am very thankful.

I wonder in retrospect if I hadn't found this program first would I have fallen for the Stores
OnLine sales push and ended up buying a number of over priced sites that I could never get
up and running at a profit.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Susan Dorey
http://ctpm.sitesell.com/Susan11.html
www.livingwithrheumatoidarthritis.com
----------------------------------------------------------------


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)============

Re: How Pay-Per-Click Search Engines Work
From: Tom Falco

By Tom Falco (c) 2004
http://www.thediscountprinter.com

The best way to market your websites these days is with pay-per-click search engines and
the best of course are Overture and Google.

It seems that the major search engines are changing their rules daily and it is getting harder
and harder to get your site listed. In many cases one must pay and that does not guarantee
being placed at the top of any one category.

But with Overture.com, Google. com and other pay-per-click search engines, you can place
yourself at the top and you regulate how much you want to spend per click.

With a little experimentation, you can find out the best click through rates and the best
terms to use.

We sell custom printed promotional and party items.
We noticed that when we placed our printed cups, matches, napkins, etc. under the category
of "Retirement Parties," we received lots of clicks, but no orders for retirement parties.

When we placed the same items under "Proms,"
"Family Reunions," "High School Reunions," and such, the orders were coming in like
wildfire. So of course we removed our listing under "Retirement Parties" since it seemed
that people were willing to click on our link out of curiosity, costing us money each time
they clicked, yet they never placed orders.

With pay-per-click we were able to get many pages and items listed that on the regular
search engines would not have been.

The best part of pay-per-click search engines is that they have deals with Yahoo, MSN,
AOL and other major search engines, and the top three listings usually are actually carried
over to the other search engines. So what you have on Overture or Google is also on Yahoo,
MSN, Ask Jeeves, Alta Vista and others at the same time. This is only for the three listings
on each category.

This has helped with our 2005 Calendar promotion. We were able to place the printed
calendars at the top of the search engines, which enabled us to sell out our entire stock!
When they were sold out, we simply removed the listings.

Listings usually start at only .10 per click, which isn't bad. Depending on your listing and
your business type, 10 could get you to the top on in many categories.
You can check your stats daily and see where the clicks are coming from and how many
people are actually clicking on specific key words or links.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Tom Falco is owner of TheDiscountPrinter.com, the very popular printing and promotional
items website.
Visit: http://www.thediscountprinter.com

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.2)============

Re: Jocye Hiram Pay Per Click reponse
From: Mike Sullivan

Greetings,

This is a tough question as there are so many variables to consider before answering.  If
your product or service is unique, or specialized, then your costs could be minimum of a
few dollars a day for very targeted responses and/or leads.

Sadly, this is not usually the case, so with that, you need to do a little research.  This is
simple; start with Overture is my best advice.  They have some great tools to help you in
your research.  You will know what terms pull the most hits, know who your competition
is, and what they are paying per click, so this is where you must start.

Next, once you identify where you need to be listed, and how much it will cost, is to budget
yourself.  New search technology allows you to target regions, and this is a valuable
addition for store front businesses. Since you did not identify what your business is, I don't
want to comment further since you could waste your time and money, so remember, you
can now target local customers which is important new feature in PPC industry.

I have had great success with my PPC campaigns, and besides my Mobile LED Billboard
campaigns, I use PPC for 80% of my new business.  As one who owns several businesses,
both online and offline traditional businesses, I have tried every medium known, and the
above are the most effective I have ever used and I would recommend them.

As far as cost, you can choose your budget and test the responses you get.
You can accurately track the results with all the tools Overture offers.
This is important as it will save you money.  My average PPC campaign will cost several
hundred a month, but I have some of my more unique businesses costing only a few dollars
a day.  If you are in a very competitive field, then expect to pay more.

I know some major companies I compete with throw up $4.00 to $5.00 per click bids, so I
do not bother with these key words for obvious reasons.
In some cases, I can be third for only .10 per click, so you have to do your research. You
also must manage your accounts, so this takes time, but is well worth it.  PPC is the most
effective online advertising of all in my experience.

Good Luck, Mike

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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)============
Re: Stuart Croll advertising quest?
From: Mike Sullivan

Greetings,

I can relate to your quest for cost effective advertising, just as we all can I am sure. 
Advertising is a moving target, what worked yesterday may not work tomorrow.  As ad run
in the newspaper one week may draw a dozen good prospects, yet the following week will
not draw a fly.  This is the nature of traditional advertising.  Always has been, and always
will be.

Whenever you advertise in traditional mediums, you must think long term, not a shot on the
dark, as in one ad, small or large, it takes several weeks for advertising to be effective.  Try
thinking as a typical customer would think.  Most who see an ad that may interest them will
not act unless the need is urgent, as in needing a plumber, a real estate agent, or car, as
example.  In other words, unless you need what is advertised in newspaper at that moment
in time, your ad is forgotten in a second.

Sure, one ad can be effective if you are targeting a specific customer for a specific product,
but in most cases a single ad campaign will fail over and over. If you were promoting
school supplies, as example, and school was about to open for the year in your region, then
a one ad campaign may be effective, but most advertising does not work like this example.

Before you will define your best advertising niche, you will need to become your own best
customer.  In other words, think of what would attract your attention.  Would you read a
flyer posted in a grocery store?
Do you respond to the first ad you see in a newspaper on a new business?
Do you read classified section?  Do you read the money mailer coupons?  Do you read
roadside billboards?  In short, if you want to reach your potential customer base, think like
they would.

As a business owner, both owning online and offline traditional businesses, I have tried
every known method of advertising.  As most have discovered, it can be a very frustrating
process to identify what works best for your business.  Again, not all businesses are the
same, nor will the same medium work for all business categories.

It costs a ton of money to advertise, and because results are fleeting, you may quit just
before the results you want hit.  You must use repeat advertising, and if on a small budget,
you are far better off with a small ad for six weeks rotated on different pages than you are
with one large ad run only once. I have tried every knowm means of advertising and this
was the first lesson I learned.

Here is the second lesson.  Follow your competitions lead if they have been in the same
business for longer than you have.  Simply put, they have already wasted tens of thousands
of dollars doing what you are now faced with, so why not duplicate what they are doing. 
Often times new business owners don't have a clue where to start, so this is an important
point, do what your competition is doing to start.

Third, create a business identity, slogan, logo, something that will catch a person's attention
and hopefully is easy to remember, so work on this, it is very important, and often
overlooked. Create a business identity and always use it in every ad, so short and to the
point is best.

What advertising works best in my experience?  Well, what worked best was not available
in the market place, so many years ago I had an idea, and made it a reality, and having
tested it for the past three years, it is worth considering no matter what kind of business you
have. In fact, I know it works for all businesses, and great for promoting all products or
services, but when I read your post, I said, WOW, this would be perfect for your business.

People love to laugh, and I use this factor in many of my advertising campaigns, so I know
humor works and it builds on your company image.
Mobile LED Billboards are hands down the most effective advertising medium I have ever
used.  Not because I developed it, but because it came about from a business owners need,
my own. Having several businesses, I can promote them all from one medium, my Mobile
LED Billboard in my fleet of vehicles.  It is the best "In Your Face" advertising I have ever
used.

Simply go back to what I said stated above, what attracts your attention as a customer?  If
you were in traffic behind a vehicle and saw a bright red scrolling message board in the rear
window of car or truck in front of you, would you read message?  It is really that simple. 
And with your business, what could be better than promoting laughter with samples of what
you want people to tune into.  Think about it.  I use jokes on my billboards all the time
mixed in with sales promo, so I know humor works.
How, I simply look in rear view mirror and since most people are lip readers, I know they
are reading my messages.  And with your business, they will be laughing, a very good
SIGN. (g)

Good Luck, Mike

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==============New Discussions (1)==============

What Sells Better Online?
From: Amalia Sotiriadou

We had no new items for discussion contributed this week, so I thought I would open a
discussion of my own - this IS a legitimate question, I have been trying to research it.
In your experience, what sells better online, services or products? If your answer is
"products", are tangible products more salable or do intangible products (e-books etc.) sell
better? I'm interested in what sells on the Internet NOW, not 3 years ago, so please take
that into consideration in your answers.
Thanks,

Amalia Sotiriadou

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Commerce and Marketing Solutions
http://www.showmypage.com

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----------------------------GUEST ARTICLE --------------------------

When M L M's Go Bad, by Dylan Campbell
===========================================================

There is no such thing as a totally fair M L M. The person at the bottom of the line always
misses out. That's not to say they don't have their place in the web marketing industry,
people just need to understand what that place is.

All too often, MLM's are used as the purpose of a program, rather than an added benefit.

Allow me to back-track. Definition first, then application.

When I first discovered web marketing programs, I kept seeing the initials M L M, with no
clue as to what the letters stood for. In fact it was weeks before I eventually discovered the
term "mu1ti-level marketing".

Not that I was any the wiser. Describing a typical M L M is like trying to describe a typical
job. There are so many different uses for the concept that trying to break it down to a few
words can never really do it justice. There are many different applications of M L M's. Some
useful, some useless. Some legal, some illegal.

The basic principle is that the marketing efforts of one person benefit more than the
individual.

A real-world example would be a wholesaler selling large qualities of DVD's to resellers.
The wholesaler buys the DVD's from the producers for 2 per DVD. He sells them to high-
street retailers for 4 per DVD. The high-street retailer sells them to the consumer for 6
per DVD.

In each case the profit is 2, but the wholesaler wouldn't make his profit without the high
street retailers, and the high street retailers wouldn't make their profit without the
consumer.

The process from producers to consumers effectively shares out the cost of the distribution
while ensuring a profit is made at each level.

Compare this with an affiliate program.

The owner (producer) wants to sell software X for 50. He sells his product to his members
wholesalers) at a full or reduced rate. The members then sell the product on to other
members (also wholesalers) and also to ezine and website owners (high-street retailers), for
the same price keeping between 30-50% percent of each sale. The ezine and website
owners sell the product to their readers / viewers (consumers), also keeping 30-50 percent
of each sale.

This process works well for the owner as the cost of marketing is shared among the
members and the ezine / website owners. Everyone makes some money or receives the
product they want.

The problems begin when the owner gets greedy.

Not satisfied with a simple affiliate program, they combine it with an MLM program. They
reduce the percentage members make from each sale to 5-10%. They then announce that if
you introduce a member to the program, you will make 5-10% of every sale they make in
addition to your own sale.

If they recruit more members you will also earn 5-10% of every sale they make and so on,
down several levels.

This has two effects:

1) Members stop selling the product and start selling the benefits of selling the product. The
prospect of making money is usually easier to sell than the product itself which leads to vast
number of members signing up. As you have to purchase the product to join, the owner is
making a lot of money.

2) In the original affiliate program, members had to sell 2-3 products to break even. Now
members have to sell between 10 and 20 products to break even. Since most can't manage
this, the majority of members wind up with nothing but a discounted program they didn't
really want in the first place. The only real winners are the owner, the members who
managed to sell in large numbers and the people who bought the software because they
really wanted it.

Take Note: The owner and members who profited, did so, not because they found satisfied
customers, but because the promise of riches lured many members to waste their money on
the product. These are the guru's who amass their wealth, not dishonestly, but unethically
and immorally.

These same people will also take your money in exchange for learning how to be successful
in selling these programs. In making a lot of money of the backs of people who should
know better, but sadly don't.

This is why M L M's are unfair. This is when M L M's go bad.

But it doesn't have to be this way.

The example of Software X wouldn't be so unpleasant if individuals stopped selling a profit
and started selling a product. If they promoted the M L M part of the program as a benefit,
rather than the purpose, this would stop some people from buying the program under the
illusion that they are assured of making vast amounts of money.

And play your part as well. Stop promoting unrealistic promises of wealth and start
promoting promises of a great product. Before you resell it, try it out and make sure it
works and is actually worth buying.

And when you assess a program that features M L M. Ask it two questions.

1) Does the M L M have a product? Software, eBooks, services, anything that people can
GENUINELY benefit from. If the only product is making money from future members,
leave it alone.

2) If a member doesn't recruit a single person, do they still benefit from the program? For
example, do they, at the least, come away with a useful product or service. Traffic
Exchanges are a good example as (providing the ratio is reasonable), a sole member can
still earn a steady stream of traffic from surfing without having to recruit others.

If the program fails to successfully answer either of these two questions, move on. Ignore
the promise of wealth.

Keep your dignity, keep your morals, keep your ethics and leave the guru's to continue the
age-old tradition of making money off the backs of others who finish up out of pocket.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dylan Campbell has been quietly making a living on the Internet since 2000. He has a
unique, and often controversial, view of the industry.
Dylan Campbell writes exclusively for The Nettle Ezine http://thenettle.com/

=================================================================

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-----------------JOKE OF THE DAY-------------------

Little Old Lady Knows How to Gamble 


    A little old lady went into the Bank of Canada one day, carrying a bag of money. She
insisted that she must speak with the president of the bank to open a savings account
because, "It's a lot of money!" After much hemming and hawing, the bank staff finally
ushered her into the president's office.

    The bank president then asked her how much she would like to deposit. She replied,
"$165,000!" and dumped the cash out of her bag onto his desk. The president was, of
course, curious as to how she came by all this cash, so he asked her, "Ma'am, I'm surprised
you're carrying so much cash around. Where did you get this money?" The old lady replied,
"I make bets."

    The president then asked, "Bets? What kind of bets?" The old woman said, "Well, for
example, I'll bet you $25,000 that your balls are square." "Ha!" laughed the president,
"That's a stupid bet. You can never win that kind of bet!" The old lady challenged, "So,
would you like to take my bet?" "Sure," said the president, "I'll bet $25,000 that my balls
are not square!" The little old lady then said, "Okay, but since there is a lot of money
involved, may I bring my lawyer with me tomorrow at 10:00 am as a witness?" "Sure!"
replied the confident president.

    That night, the president got very nervous about the bet and spent a long time in front of
a mirror checking his balls, turning from side to side, again and again. He thoroughly
checked them out until he was sure that there was absolutely no way his balls were square
and that he would win the bet.

    The next morning, at precisely 10 am, the little old lady appeared with her lawyer at the
president's office. She introduced the lawyer to the president and repeated the bet: 
"$25,000 says the president's balls are square!" The president agreed with the bet again and
the old lady asked him to drop his pants so they could all see. The president complied. The
little old lady peered closely at his balls and then asked if she could feel them.  "Well,
Okay," said the president,"$25,000 is a lot of money, so I guess you should be absolutely
sure."

    Just then, he noticed that the lawyer was quietly banging his head against the wall. The
president asked the old lady, "What the hell's the matter with your lawyer?" She replied,
"Nothing, except I bet him $50,000 that at 10am today, I'd have the president of the Bank of
Canada's balls in my hand."
 
=========================================================



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