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                                              Bogdan Fiedur, Publisher
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                                         Moderator, Amalia Sotiriadou
                                         Vol. 1 issue #417 Oct. 1, 2004


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Topics in this issue:
Word from the Moderator

Continuing Discussions (8)
1. Re: What Sells Better Online?
Ellen DuBois, Robert Lee,
2. Re: Juiceboosted
William Jaroske, Paul Anthony, William Hathaway
3. RE: Advertising Quest
Robert Lee

4. Re: Stores Online

5. Re: MLM - definitions
Michael Sheridan

New Discussions (1)
Google Ads
Leo Hanes

Site Review Requests   (0)

Site Review Responses (1)
Re: Review Request
From: Robert Lee

Banners You Can't Ignore, by Dylan Campbell

Joke of the Day

Welcome to the 529 new subscribers this week!

Word from Moderator

It's October already! My, how time flies!! Less than 3 months left until Christmas
and the busiest business season is already upon us!

I know you will all be busy in the next few months trying to promote your own
products and (I hope) raking in the money, but let's not forget that Networking is one
of the BEST ways you can make your business grow. Bogdan Fiedur has made
Networking possible via the wonderful Community he created for us. As I told you
last week, we have also created a Forum for the Adland Digest. This will make it
MUCH simpler for our members to interact with each other, so please go check it
out! The AdlandPro Digest Frum can be found here:

Some other forums that may interest you:

Solutions 4 Life - Complete w/ Computer Technical Support 24hrs. 7days a week
any brand from hardware to software, Educational Training CD's, Affiliate
 Programs, Search Engine and More... Forum Owner: James Lei S. Bejer

Street Smart Marketing - The mission of this forum is to give members the ability to
showcase their articles. Forum Owner: John Colanzi

Advertising Specials -A place to post your online and offline advertising specials.
Forum Owner: Kristin Wilson

Healthy Living - A place to discuss, learn, ask questions or provide answers to a
healthier way of life. Forum Owner: Tina Jones

Weight Loss & Energy - All about weight loss! What works, what doesn't! Have you
dieted in the past? Questions, comments, issues, them here! Forum
Owner: Gail Grainger

Have a GREAT month!

Amalia Sotiriadou
Adland Digest
My AdLandPro Community page:





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===========Continuing Discussions (11) =====================

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
Re: What Sells Better Online?
From: Ellen DuBois

Hi. My name is Ellen and I'm new to posting to this digest. Actually, I've given it a
good read today and think I've been missing out on a lot of valuable information!
When I read the question of what sells better online, I felt compelled to answer from
my vantage point because I'm in this position: I'm the author of an e-book,
(downloadable), the author of a paperback, (not downloadable), and my I've built
many retail-based websites. In reviewing simply numbers, I've found this to be the
1. Tangible products sell the best for me, and in my case, my top performer is
women's plus size apparel. Although it took several years before my site, got off the ground, I researched the markets
and it paid off. Although I'm not a plus sized woman, it doesn't matter. I wanted to
find a niche market that I felt wasn't getting the attention it deserved, and wanted to
keep the focus on women's products and services.
Bottom line, (although there are some returns), being an affiliate for so many plus
size clothing companies has certainly been worth the MANY hours of effort each
2. My ebook on miscarriage: Even though the ebook itself doesn't sell nearly as
many copies as I'd hoped,(the ebook market didn't explode as anticipated (in my
opinion), I've found the content on the site to be of interest to many women.
Subsequently, there's now a much longer manuscript under consideration with a print
publisher, because my site has shown there's a substantial market for the book based
site stats and feedback.
So, even though the product is a mere $5.00 download, I find it doesn't sell a fraction
of what my apparel does, (which is much more expensive).
However, my miscarriage site has proven to be a great feeler for the market. This
resulted in a print publisher asking me to write a much longer book for consideration.
So, I suppose there's a reason for everything!
3. The Value of Content: My paperback is tangible, but, as an author, if you're not
'known' it's tough to get that way. So, in an effort to increase book sales, I
transformed what was simply a site to promote my book, back into the content-
driven site it was for several years. I'm pretty established on the Internet as a poet,
not an author. So, I am taking advantage of that by taking the focus AWAY from
selling my book, and offering free poems to my visitors. My book is displayed, of
course, but it's through offering content for websites with a linkback required, that
I'm increasing the potential of selling more books. Transforming Writings of the
Heart back to what it once was,
( has already sparked some writing and free
 promotional opportunities from some very large ezines and emagazines-the largest
being Dreams Alive- the largest home and garden online magazine of its kind, who is
considering using a series of my poems for their egreeting card line. One thing builds
upon another.
Lessonlearned: If you have a product that no-one really has an interest in yet, place
the focus on something you know there's an interest in and as a by-product, your
other intention, (in this case selling my book), will happen as a result.  (Hopefully!)

I know that was a long way of saying, "Women's apparel, in particular, plus size,
sells best for me in today's marketplace, and has been the consistent top performer
for the past two and a half years.

A close second are candles. They've never gone 'out', there's a huge market for them,
(making it a very competitive one), but you can do well selling candles and keeping
your focus on candles ALONE.

Coming in third are bras. Okay, sounds crazy, but The Bra Boutique does very well.
It used to outrank the candles, but a bit of a flip-flop took place.

Coming in fourth are Christmas Trees and decor. My Christmas site kind of putters
along until the fourth quarter of the year, but from around October to January, watch
out! People aren't afraid to buy artificial trees online, and it's a lot easier than trying
to lug one home if it's a biggie.

What do these sites have in common? They all focus on one market, one product
type, and I think that's been the key to their success.

Thanks for your time, and I'm sorry this response was so long!

The best to you in your endeavors,

Ellen M. DuBois is a multi-published author in the genres of poetry, fiction and
nonfiction and is also a webmaster.,



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============

Re: What Sells Better Online
From: Robert Lee

I'd like to start by quoting Cathy Wagner "People seem to want more than
information today, they want help." end quote.
I think that it depends on what you are looking for and on the other end, what you're
But to make a fast sale, you need a product tied to an immediate response.
Something that can be used right away can be a great sale when the person is looking
for information. On one of my sites selling search engine submissions works well
with people that come to my site to get listed.
They are already prepared to use their time to promote their site, the next step is an
automatic submission of their web site. And it offers immediate satisfaction, even if
the results take weeks/months to be seen.
Saying that luxury item sales have gone down is a blanket statement that is too broad
to be useful. Oil is over US$50.00 a barrel. SUV sales are at an all-time high.
Robert Lee

Because we all started with zero knowledge AND GREW!



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)============

Re: Jaroske Free-Juice Followup
From: William Jaroske

Mike Sullivan said

"You make a remark about not making an educated business decision, because I
didn't look at the WWS MLM comic relief board."

Geez no wonder you got conned into Pure Invester and the risk free sports betting
rackets because you DID NOT investigate.

"Now I don't know how you do your due diligence, but having a banner with no
BOLD RED SCAM logo on it would mean to me that it is merely on the watch list
given this is a MLM scam site, right?"

Well I can see that you did not care to read JuiceBoosted - SCAM ALERT?!
Scam Alert: Juice Boost

And further. Info posted at Broadband Reports

I see you guys are running into the same problems we have at forum.
Some ppl still don't see why this is 100% scam no other realistic options. Granted
there is nothing you can do about some of them. I would like to post this black and
white list we have made just to make it all to clear. The technical issues have been
compressed to just two points since many users at don?t understand the
issues anyway.

The complete list so far:


1. Tech compression is unreasonable.
2. Sideline techs equally unreasonable. (Blocking spam, 404, etc...)
3. MLM (Some think there are legit MLM companies but regardless it can not be
argued that most of them are not legit.) 4. Lots of $$$$$$$ on the page.
5. Signing affiliates is bigger then the actual product.
6. The money they would have to pay out.
7. Theft of a website and implied relation to a known company.
8. That known company stating they are not related and stating they are taking legal
9. Lack of security on the website.
10. Amateur website code.
11. Cheap web server, not even their own.
12. Vapourware.
13. Lack of contact. (E-mail, and telephone) 14. Fake business address.
15. Constant drilling that there is ?no risk? or is ?free? every 4th or 5th line.
16. Lack of legalese such as fine print and language like ?up to 2mb.?
17. Lack of hard information about the site.
18. A business model that would require the ability to stay profitable with 80 million
free for life accounts.
19. No registration with Dunn & Bradstreet.
20. No evidence of incorporation.
21. No evidence of 23 patents. (Though technically even if they did, patents are not a
22. SKBi programming group doesn?t seem to exist. (Mind control site has wrong
caps on abbreviation, google doesn't list any other likelycandidates.)

For details or clarification on any of these, feel free to ask.

Links to help shut JuiceB down.

Trading Standards:


Advertising Standards Authority (they have a complaints form in the "contact us" section"

Same information posted at:

"What I find interesting is that not one person has been able to define the so called
scam, but how all the scambusters love to attack anything that does not compute. As
I stated in my posts, I am still researching with an open mind, and to date, I still don't
know if it is for real or not, but I certainly won't be so narrow minded to believe what
any anti MLM zealot might post"

Researching. What, using a magic 8 ball. LOL

"Free-Juice may end up as a hoax, impossible, whatever, but until I have all the
research completed, and it is proven, I will remain neutral on the subject, unlike you
and your proof it is a scam just because you saw a banner on some laughable MLM
hate site."

Impossible, whatever: Oh what typical UNEDUCATED responses you like to make.
Who's the dumbexpert now?

 "Dumb Expert, where did you get this name from? LOL Do your due diligence"
For your information I thought of it myself. So enjoy being branded a dumb expert

William Jaroske
---------------------------------------------------------------- can help you steer clear of internet frauds.
Earn your income the real way. Invest in worthwhile opportunities that provide you
with tools and software.

===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)============

Re: Juiceboosted
From: Paul Anthony

Has anyone noticed that the URLs and possibly are up for sale?




===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)============

Re: Juiceboosted
William Hathaway

I wrote the original question about juice now I'm happy I did I've learned more from
this forum than anywhere else on the net thanks



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)============

RE: Advertising Quest
From: Robert Lee

PPC or Pay Per Click search engines can offer opportunities that have been
unattainable without the targeted traffic that can be gained by such advertising.
Fraud does happen in the PPC world, don't be fooled. Estimates abound of anywhere
from 5% to 20% of clicks are fraudulent and/or untargeted traffic (and competitor
traffic). This concerns Google and Overture.
The first tier PPC's.
The second tier, [Kanoodle, FindWhat, A-Ha, Mamma and others] with their farther
reaching hopes of traffic through the PPC cycle and their poor quality of affiliate
search traffic providers, the fraud percentage can be that much higher.
I personally have fallen victim to PPC fraud when using a second tier PPC's and
have a couple of guidelines for you:
1. Always use specific landing pages for your PPC ads. Creating one landing page
per ad will help you determine the ads success and ROI [return on investment]
2. Always use tracking urls so you can record traffic received from the PPC as
against traffic landing on your page. There will be a difference in the numbers. More
than 5% should be investigated.
3. Never spend more than your budget allows. It's easy to fall victim to the higher
traffic visitor numbers, then realize at the end of the month that the sales didn't
happen and you've overspent.
4. Track and test every ad. Every time. It's the wisest investment you'll make.

Robert Lee
Internet marketing is not a cookie cutter process. You cannot duplicate results of
successful internet marketers without still maintaining a trial and error attitude.
Despite what the internet business gurus will tell you.




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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)============

Re: Stores Online
From: Bob


I got my invitation to an Internet Marketing Conference.
I went and can honestly say that I did find it interesting.

I signed up for the Work Shop at a $30.00 cost to attend an "All-Day" ,get fed, and
learn a lot more.....Is this the one you stayed at the whole day ?

If so, How was the food ?  :-)

Seriously, what can I expect?



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)============

Re: MLM - definitions
From: Michael Sheridan

I doubt if many people would share Dylan's interpretation of the terms MLM and
'affiliate'.  Perhaps these are what he means by a 'unique' view of internet marketing.

Both terms pre-date the internet by a long way and although their usage has been
corrupted through advertising hype, in reality the basic concepts remain the same.

The main difference between the two is quite simply this; you do not need to buy
anything to become an affiliate.

Once a purchase is a condition of entry then you are into MLM, regardless of how
the 'program' owner describes the scheme.  In fact, if you have to buy the product in
order to sell it on, and it is your purchase which is the qualifier, you are in a pyramid
scheme (which is what many internet 'businesses' actually are).

If you look around the internet you'll find many mainstream businesses offering
affiliate commissions - is an obvious example. There is nothing to buy,
no money to spend, you just sign up.

And you do what Dylan very wisely suggests - you sell PRODUCTS not pipe
dreams.  The rest of his argument is well put, I believe, but the distinction between
various marketing methods is important to understand, if only because there are legal
Best wishes

Michael Sheridan is a former compliance officer in the financial services industry,
specialising in fraud.



==============New Discussions (1)==============

Google Ads
From: Leo Hanes

Just checking to see if anybody has direct experience using Google ADwords

I used for about 10 months, with mixed results. the positioning for my service
became very expensive, and converted so so!

I still use it for my newsletter which has a much narrower target market than the
discount health benefits

Let me know what you found

Leo Hanes, Founder & Publisher
"Full-Time RVing News"
727-504-5660 ( cell),877-233-9814 (Toll-Free)




Site Review Requests   (0)



Site Review Responses (1)

Re: Review Request
From: Robert Lee

Just for the heck of it, since it seemed like such a polished website, not the ordinary
run-of-the-mill site review request, I googled "financial independence group"
and ended up with these similar websites:
I could go on, of course, but you get the point. Don't request a site review if all you
want is free advertising.

Your site is even just framed in from this URL:

 We'll never trust you again.
I hope that the moderator cans your membership.

Robert Lee

Because we all started with zero knowledge AND GREW!

Comment from Moderator: Robert, I don't "can" members. You had no obligation to
research this site. Thanks for doing it and warning us, anyway!




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----------------------------GUEST ARTICLE --------------------------

Banners You Can't Ignore, by Dylan Campbell

Some "experts" say they don't exist. Apparently we have become so accustomed to
seeing banners, we have learned to ignore them. We sub-consciously create little
white blocks exactly 468x60 pixels in size that neatly fit over banners so that we no
longer see them and NEVER click on them.

Of course these same experts will then tell you what, of course, you SHOULD be
using. Their product.

Naturally some marketing techniques work better than others. But that doesn't mean
the less effective approaches should be ignored. A balanced advertising campaign
will spread itself across a variety of mediums.

But isn't it true that click-thru rates (CTR) on banners have dropped over the years?

This is difficult to ascertain and views on this are conflicting but, ultimately, CTR's
on banners are irrelvant and the measure of success should not be based on this
misleading statistic.

Let's say you get a 2% CTR on your banner. In other words, 2 out of every 100
views results in 2 mouse clicks.

Most would consider this to be a successful banner as most achieve considerably less
than this. But how many of those "clickers" then take a genuine interest in the
website they view?

Not many. Especially when you consider that the most effective banners are those
that give nothing away and lure you in through sheer curiosity.

The banner has successfully achieved a good CTR, but for what purpose.

A banner with a high CTR does not automatically translate into success for your

The success of a banner should be judged by a different criteria. By one that cannot
easily be measured.

Just for a moment, compare banners to billboard advertising.

How many times have you seen an interesting billboard and then communicated with
it to learn more information.

Well, unless you're Steve Martin in LA Story, the answer is never.

How many times have you rung the phone number or written to the address printed
on a billboard?

Once? Twice? Never?

In fact how many billboards do you see that actually provide you with a contact
number and / or address so that you can find out more?

They exist, but are few and far between.

Does this mean that billboards are a monumental failure?

Not a bit of it. Billboard advertising is primarily about branding. About getting a
product, a logo, a TV channel, a movie, absolutely anything into your brain. If you
see it enough times, you will remember it.

You might not even know what it is you have seen, but you can be assured that when
you see it on the supermarket shelf or in your TV guide, the billboard image will be
recalled and a connection is made.

Branding isn't about CTR's, it is about visibility. It's about presence. If you're seen
enough times, people will instinctively start to think that there must be something
worth-while behind the advert.

At the very least, you project the image of success.

And this is important not just to draw new customers but also to keep your existing
ones happy.

Think about all the billboards you see for the number one selling brand of cola. Are
they looking for new business? Are they really trying to find that miniscule group of
people that have yet to try their soft drink?

Not a bit of it. They are just reminding their millions of existing customers that they
exist and to keep on buying their product.

So think of your banners, not as a draw to lure people to your webpage, but as an
opportunity to tell the viewer that you're out there. Be sure to remember the

-- Colour scheme and logo. This should match your website exactly. Placed side by
side, the connection between your banner and your website should be glaring.

-- Make sure the banner communicates or, at the very least, strongly hints what you
are about. Luring people into clicking on your banner about traffic exchanges and
then trying to sell them a car is not helpful.

-- When you create new banners, keep the style consistent. Viewers should be able to
connect your banners together while still seeing something new.

Of course, if CTR's really matter to you, then this article cannot help you. Instead,
you might like to try spending your hard-earned cash on one of those ebooks that
teach you how to "hypnotise" your customers.

Although I can't speak for their quality. I've never brought a single one of their
"mesmerising" products.

Dylan Campbell has been quietly making a living on the Internet since 2000, he has
a unique, and often controversial, view of the industry.

Dylan writes exclusively for The Nettle Ezine ( )





-----------------JOKE OF THE DAY-------------------
Contributed by: David Brevner

Here are two jokes for you

Peanuts Review
A pharmacist goes to a nursing home to review an elderly customer. As he is sitting
there, he notices a bowl of peanuts beside her bed and takes one. As they talk, he
can't help himself and eats one after another.

By the time they are through talking, the bowl is empty.

He says, "Ma'am, I'm sorry, but I seem to have eaten all of your peanuts."

"That's okay," she says. "They would have just sat there. Without my teeth, all I can
do is suck the chocolate off and put them back.

"Spooky Pookie"

There was a case in one hospital's Intensive Care ward where patients always died in
the same bed, on Sunday morning, at about 11 a.m., regardless of their medical

This puzzled the doctors and some even thought that it had something to do with the
supernatural. No one could solve the mystery... as to why the deaths occurred around
11 a.m. on Sundays.

So a World-Wide team of experts was assembled to investigate the cause of the
incidents. The next Sunday morning, a few minutes before 11 a.m., all doctors and
nurses nervously wait outside the ward to see for themselves what the terrible
phenomenon was all about.
Some were holding wooden crosses, prayer books and other holy objects to ward off
the evil spirits.

Just when the clock struck 11... Pookie Johnson, the part-time Sunday sweeper,
entered the ward and unplugged the life support system so that he could use the
vacuum cleaner.

You can join now and have 1,000?s in your downline in a few days.  In fact if you
would have joined yesterday, you would have 100+ in your downline right now!


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