A Free subscribed Discussion List
                           of  25,000 subscribers
                     on web marketing and promotion
               supported by AdlandPro World's Classifieds
                        Bogdan Fiedur,  Publisher
                                      contact at
                      Vol. 1 issue #337  Mar, 23, 2003

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Topics in this issue:

Sponsor Message
Word from Publisher
1.Do You Know what You Are Doing?

C o n t i n u i n g   D i s c u s s i o n s (6)

1.Never pay for website promotion again.
~Andy Sparks
~Robert Lee

2.Habeas Inc
~Sharon Bray-McPherson
~Cheryl Crossan
~Marion Stearns

3.Ezines- HTML or Text
~Gary Kidd
~Pauline Phillips

4.Seeking input on spyware to promote
~Sharon Bray-McPherson
~Cathy Wagner

5.Long road to success
~William Jaroske

6.More personalization is needed to succeed
~Robert Lee

N e w     P o s t s  (2)

1.Claire Solt
~Teaching Success

2.Harvey Segal
~How To Profit From Forum Postings

Site Review Requests   (0)

Site Review Responses   (0)

G u e s t   A r t i c l e    (1)
1.A Success Essential - Join A Mastermind Group
By Willie Crawford

Joke of the Day

================== Word from publisher ====================

Greetings All

Welcome  280 new subscribers who joined list since last mailing.

In last issue I mentioned about possibility of advertising in all Adland Digest issues for small monthly nominal fee of $10.50 per month.

In addition to that, your subscribers would receive weekly articles on two topics
Building of business on the Internet and
Marketing and promotion on the internet.

Your copies sent to your subscribers would look like these 

Adds in yellow frames would be dynamically displayed advertisements which you would have option to update at any time and your archives would instantly reflect your changes. So even one year from now, you would be able to offer past discussions to your subscribers with your ads in it.

Take also into consideration that those pages are being spidered by search engines and they will be visited for years without any effort on your part.
In addition each issue of Adland Digest would have something like this at the top.

This newsletter is supported and owned in part by Your Name of Your website name   your email address.

Of course version of your newsletter would go only to subscribers which we would get from your reference. 

If you would like to get this kind of system for yourself go here.


Bogdan Fiedur


=================Do You Know what You Are Doing?=====================
From:Claire Solt

What every business really needs is a solid business plan which includes a
marketing plan designed to achieve stated profit goals & objectives.

Quibbling over details like this is missing the forest for the trees. It
is bad for this useful and interesting discussion, when someone attacks
someone else who is speaking to share wisdom gained from achieving

I, for one ask for everyone who does this attacking to restrain him or
herself from disrespecting  people who post to provide honest input based
on their experience.

If a real charlatan or scam artist should appear we would be in a
different situation. Even then, someone who contributes info on a
questionable  program, or technique, should not be attacked for conveying
information that is asked for, just because he or she is aware of what is
going on in a certain arena.

Kill the messengers and you will still be in the dark. As Mark Twain is
credited with saying, "If you think education is expensive, try

Claire Wheeler Solt PhD

Knowledge is Power Learn Online Marketing NOW
Granny is a Marketing and Training Pro Learn Principles and Programs to
Get 900 Hits/Day & 20 Sign-ups/month Systematically CLICK NOW


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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.1)=============
From:Andy Sparks
Subject:Never pay for website promotion again.


You might have a future in politics.  You need to go back and reread your
own posts.  You have forgotten how this discussion began.  I made a
comment in an on going discussion that you needed your own domain and
paid hosting to succeed.

You jumped in and said that I was wrong.  You then told your story
about starting with free resources but paying for a domain and hosting as
soon as you could possibly afford those services.  A number of people and
I have asked you the question, if free resources were so effective, why
did you upgrade?

We are comparing apples and oranges because, Robert and I are talking
about success and you are talking about starting.  The problem is with the
way you have written your posts, you implied that you became successful
without your own domain and with free hosting.  Now in this issue you
finally make it clear to the newbies reading this issue of the digest that
you didn't actually become successful until you paid for a domain and a
hosting account.

Just like the General, (Robert E. Lee) said, you didn't get a #3 Google
rank with free hosting and no domain name.

Andy Sparks

PS. Just because I don't agree with you, that doesn't make me rude.  You
can search the entire Adland Digest Archives, Elizabeth, and if you find
one post of mine that is actually rude and not just rude because I don't
agree with you, I'll mail you a ten dollar bill.

Andy Sparks

Buy or Sell real estate online.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (1.2)=============
From:Robert Lee
Subject:Never pay for website promotion again.

To Elizabeth and interested Adlanders:
Elizabeth, there never was a misunderstanding between us. You attempted to
use this newsletter as a means of pushing your business into the limelight
without telling us real truths. You stated from the start that you made
money with a free website and a free (not yours) domain name. You then
progressed to explain that real success came when you purchased your
domain name and was spidered and well positioned in Google.

My help for this newsletter has always been to be on the side of the
"newbie" and not let them be taken in.

I used to promote the fact that a free host can get you going and I still
believe that "to a point" in that if you expect success, you have to dress
for it! A free host is fine to learn HTML and other coding requirements of
managing a web site. BUT to expect to earn an income without moving on to
more professionalism and having a properly hosted site that does not
include popups, popunders, free banner ads etc is not just foolishness, it
's lying! is a reliable free host, but they have
limitations on their accounts as do most everyone else that offers free
hosting. AND with domain names being as low as $8.75 a year, you have to
be insane to say out loud "I cannot afford a domain name but I still want
to make money online".
And with hosting being as cheap as 5 dollars a month as well.. Well, I'm
sure you understand where I'm going with this.

Elizabeth, I am sure that you have people that think highly of you. I'm
sure your success is yours alone and not due to others. BUT if you want to
make it easier for someone else to earn money online, tell the truth, don'
t just try to make a point.

Robert Lee

There is help, you know!


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.1)=============
From:Sharon Bray-McPherson
Subject:Habeas Inc

Mr. Jaroske,

Concerning your comments about the Anti-Habeas petition.
I hate to burst your self-righteous bubble sir BUT,
requesting the petition and signing it DOES NOT subscribe
someone to the iCops newsletter, and it says right on the
petition's page that, "We are not using an online form
to insure that we do not receive unauthorized signatures."

I think this is another example of your paranoia that
everyone is out to secretly subscribe you to their newsletter,
just like you RUDELY accused me of doing when you posted a link
on my links page, even though it CLEARLY states on the links page
AND in my privacy policy that anyone posting a link would receive my
weekly announcements - that they can REMOVE themselves from at any

I think you better start getting your facts straight
Mr. Jaroske before you go hurling FALSE accusations.

Sharon Bray-McPherson

Gallant Marketing Group...For serious
network marketers. Free ad placement,
free gifts, when you join our mailing list.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.2)=============
From:Cheryl Crossan
Subject:Habeas Inc

This is no "trick" on anyone's part but Habeas. A friend and I came up
with the idea of the petition and jl was nice enough to see that we had
met governmental policies for submitting it. The reason it comes from her
autoresponder is to make it easier for my friend, where the results are
kept. They are going to be submitted to the FTC meeting on spam issues the
end of March. We are fighting tooth and nail to save YOUR business for
you, and you don't even comprehend the issues or the threat. There is also
a website called OMPUAC at where we are
singing up people to join the site and donate money for an attorney to
file a class action suit. I'm in charge of looking for an attorney right
now. We are boycotting people who use the habeas header and we hope to
send two representatives to the FTC conference. I would just like to be a
fly on your wall when you forward a joke to several friends and then find
out you just became a bulk emailer. actually, I wish people like you who
form opinions without any knowledge of the facts DID get charged to send
email.. Then the "real" business people wouldn't have to bother to save
your business for you. Very sincerely,


Cheryl A, Crossan, publisher of netSteals news, owner of and co-owner of as well as
informed consumer


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.3)=============
Subject:Habeas Inc

I can assure you JL Scott of Icop does not need to use "fear" to get
subscribers to her ezine. Give me a break. She's been online for years
and is highly respected in her field. If you've never read any of her
ezines that talk about Habeas, maybe you should. She has approached it
from both sides, even did an interview with one of the "head honchos" over
at Habeas. She's not using "scare tactics" to get subs, that is just
rediculous. I can assure you she has plenty.

You obviously don't know her or what she stands for online to make such a
silly statement. Anyone who publishes an ezine should read up on Habeas
and the changes taking place in this industry or you might just be caught
with "your pants down".


"Where Some of the Best Deals in Ezine Advertising are Made"


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.4)=============
From:Marion Stearns
Subject:Habeas Inc

In response to William Jaroske's post,
regarding iCop, petition names need to
be verified. Online forms will not do the
job of verification.

I have never heard such wild remarks about
any petitions, that I have agreed to sign.
I was not forced into any subscription,
when I signed the petition in question.

Habeas is a real threat to anyone who
takes email seriously. If anyone has doubts, read all of the information
that Habeas provides. Serious business people
won't stand a chance of survival, if we fail to act now. Tomorrow will
be too late. Filters got the best of us and so will this situation.iCop is
doing a fine job and one that many people would not want to handle.

I would say that most of us are very tired of jumping through control
hoops. I stopped taking orders a long time ago.
I support iCop efforts.

Marion Stearns

The Flashy AdMistress


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (2.5)=============
Subject:Habeas Inc

Hello William,

First, I KNOW your comments about iCop and Habeas
are VERY far from the truth. I personally know the owner of iCop and can
VERIFY without any doubt that jL Scott is NOT a "friend" with the owner
of Habeas, nor is she using the petition as a "ploy" to get any subscribers to
the iCop ezine. jL is far from being a "scammer" as you so put it and does
MORE than her fair share to keep the integrity of online business running
in an ethical manner.

I know this, because I know what she supports and more importantly
the people that support her. And if you are going to sit there and tell me
that marketing legends Rick Beneteau, Joe Robson (to name a few and
FULLY support iCOP and what it stands for), then I think you had better
re-evaluate who it is that you are gaining your marketing and business
ethics from.

You, my friend are the one that's being "scammed" into believing that
Habeas is a non-issue. I don't know who it is that you are getting your
"facts" from but you might want to VERIFY them before you shoot off
your mouth about something that you CLEARLY do NOT know a thing
about. Furthermore, if you want to keep on believing that Habeas is a
non-issue, don't come crying to those of us who are trying to inform you
of the seriousness of this threat, when you DO have to start paying to
send your email.

And if it wasn't of a serious issue, please explain WHY I have been asked
to write about it in some of the internet's top marketing ezines and WHY
I have been invited to speak about it on radio interviews and conferences.
In case you haven't "clued" in by now, it is because it IS a serious threat and
those of us who have been around long enough KNOW what is and what isn't
a legitimate concern. You should be concerned about this, END of STORY!



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===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.1)=============
From:Gary Kidd
Subject:Ezines- HTML or Text

My advice for any would be or publisher out there. Get ListMail.

It knocks spots off of all those "New" autoresponders that offer free
trials. It sends in both HTML and Text. Displaying only what the reader
can receive. It has a built in Tracking system for any links. You can have
unlimited lists, with unlimited follow ups.

You can schedule mailings so if you go away for a few days, schedule your
ezine and it goes out on time.

Automatically removes hard bounces and bad email addresses.

Folks, I am not kidding. Forget all the autoresponders for your Ezine.
ListMail is all you need for it.

Another huge benefit. No monthly payments. It is set up on your own
server, and that is included in the price.

I have tried all of them out there, and this is the only one I love! Get
it now

Sorry, but I got a little angry at last weeks guy for just writing a pure
and simple plug for his autoresponder.

What I have written above comes from my heart, there isn't at present a
better system around for your Ezine.

Gary Kidd

Everything You Need To Succeed Online, and You Get It all for FREE!



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (3.2)=============
From:Pauline Phillips
Subject:Ezines- HTML or Text

>The way it works is that you paste each version into
a separate field and then save them as one responder
message. When it gets delivered nobody can see there
are 2 versions in the mail and the mail displays only
the format that the recipient can read. If his mail
program only reads plain text that will be what he
sees. If he can read HTML then that's the one that
gets displayed.

Site Build it at
automatically sends my newsletter in the format the recipient can receive,
without them having to ask for it. It also reveals to me how many
recipients opened their newsletter!

Pauline Phillips



===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.1)=============
From:Sharon Bray-McPherson
Subject:Seeking input on spyware to promote

Hello Yakova,

In the last issue of Adland you asked this question,

"Would you use a product that is spyware to promote a
product or would you prefer a product that is safe for
users, even if it is less flexible for you?"

My answer is a resounding, NO!  And I wouldn't offer it
to my website visitors, even if it is free.

In my opinion spyware is an invasion of ones privacy and
does not reflect what an honest business owner should

Sharon Bray-McPherson

Gallant Marketing Group...For serious
network marketers. Free ad placement,
free gifts, when you join our mailing list.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (4.2)=============
From:Cathy Wagner
Subject:Seeking input on spyware to promote


I went to your site. You are right, your product is unique, but why does your
site want to place a cookie with every graphic?

My first impression was, I do not want this. Mine is a serious site and I do not
want to start offering cute gimmicks or gadgets. But, the more I thought about
it...I may have members who would like to get live chat reminders on their
desktop. I have had people tell me they forgot.

So to answer your questions:
1.  I may have members that would be interested in this and yes, I can think of
at least one way I could use it.

2. It might bring more people to my live chats.

3. Used in the way I am thinking, members may well appreciate this tool and
thereby think better of my site and service.

4. I would not use a tool that is spyware.

5. I am not really sure. I suppose sites that have time sensitive events or
announcements could use this.

I hope this helps.

Have a Profitable Day,

Cathy Wagner

ONE STOP Internet Business Services
Your ONE STOP for high quality marketing
information, tips and recommendations.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (5.1)=============
From:William Jaroske
Subject:Long road to success


The kind of atmosphere you are presenting is the fast way to wealth with
little or no workmanship. This presents a big problem for you. I can just
imagine how many get into the thinking a business is easy including you.
You are starting to be as bad as John Olson with the opportunities he
promotes with the feel good mind set he has.

The nature if business is complex. you will have people call or contact
you in some shape of form. You will find alot will waste you your time
just looking out of curiosity what you are offering. If you want to just
sell simple things with little value. Just don't expect to make much money
at it even in the long run. Don't expect many people to fall for such

For a person To think they can succeed only using a few simple tools that
don't amount to much. That makes them a fool. It makes them a fool to
believe a business is easy. A business is not easy as you think or want to
portray a business is easy. That also makes them a fool.

Believe me Its going to take alot more than just earning a measly $200 a
month to make ends meet. Not this day in age. When I still here that over
70% are still in a financial bind unable to meet expenses. There is a
problem. When I here that people still can't sell their out of a paper bag
because of the software and tools they use are so shoddy. There is a

The business opportunity that I am involved in has greater value than you
can possibly imagine.  Its like night and day. the rewards. The benefits,
The growing residual income Presents a greater chance for people to be a

The kind of tools and software we offer as listed....

Ad wizard
Robo Form
Newbies guide
USA Tax returns
Type it in
Designer banner creator
HTML email ad creator
security software
Web teacher and adware
Ezine markering packages that are low cost
Learn html and web design
advance training for marketers
Adtracking and autoresponders
Documents on demand
We Offer tons of easy step by step learning tutorials
Learn how to create pop up ads.

William Jaroske
If you want greater value than what you currently market is to log on to
my site.


===========C o n t i n u i n g D i s c u s s i o n (6.1)=============
From:Robert Lee
Subject:More personalization is needed to succeed

Mark Perkins says: I am not an expert, but if some one would want to pick
my brain, I am sure, that I could help in some small way to jumpstart
someone to the next level.
End quote

Ok Mark, explain for us how to take any website and go from 100 visitors a
day to 1,000.

How to increase sales accordingly.

How to find the right product to sell.

You see Mark, we are all experts with something, we all have bits of
knowledge. Some of us offer this knowledge truthfully and completely, when
appropriately asked.

Mark, tell us what you have to offer. what is your area of expertise or

I look forward to your next post

Robert Lee

There is help, you know!

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==============N e w P o s t i n g  (1)=============
From:Claire Solt
Subject:Teaching Success

More and more I realize that success is more a matter of character than
anything else. It is a habit of mind and behaviour. It admires, celebrates,
and attracts more success.

That is why it is very good advice that one model a successful person he or
she admires. Likewise, modeling or demonstrating success is the best one
can do for others.

Often, the people we try hardest to help don't succeed. But someone we did
not particularly notice was watching and learning. Only by coincidence
might One learn that he attributes his success to something you did or
said a while ago.

It is a logical fallacy that one can become more successful by deriding or
detracting from the success of others.

Those who demand to know what works are asking the wrong question. In this
highly competitive environment full of creative talent, it is interesting
to see what is working right now. Just realize that many have applied
themselves to improve on that and the future belongs to them.

The best question continues to be? How can I build a better mousetrap?

Claire Wheeler Solt, PhD

Knowledge Is Power Learn Online Marketing NOW
Granny is a Marketing and Training Pro Learn Principles and Programs to
Get 900 Hits/Day Systematically CLICK NOW



==============N e w P o s t i n g  (2)=============
From:Harvey Segal
Subject:How To Profit From Forum Postings

Hello all,

One of the most effective methods of promotion is to
use the online marketing forums. Every day hundreds
of thousands of people visit these forums and make
postings - but many use ineffective and often
unacceptable methods.

In  my new book I show how anyone - even newbies -
can profit from making postings at forums, with no
hype and no ads and no affiliate links.

"Forum SuperTips" is a FREE book available at

Harvey Segal



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=====================G u e s t   A r t i c l e   (1)===============
A Success Essential - Join A Mastermind Group
ByWillie Crawford

In the quest for secrets to internet marketing success
some very obvious factors are often overlooked. One
that you may have noticed but not acted upon is the
mastermind principle.  Since so many people don't
use this principle in building their business, you have
a tremendous advantage if you just begin using this
simple tool.

It's a recognized fact that when you have several people
brainstorming and working  on a project you get more
breakthroughs and unique perspectives than you would
if just one person were working on it.  A mastermind
group is simply a group of people bonded together to
work on a common  objective.  This objective can be
as simple as to share knowledge on what is or isn't
working to grow members' businesses.

In working with and studying six and seven-figure
income earners, I don't know of one who is not a
member of a mastermind group.  They all also have
mentors or coaches. They often even coach each other
since we all have unique skills and perspectives that
can benefit others.  Mastermind groups brainstorm,
inspire, prod, and joint venture the group members
to a level of accomplishment they could never
achieve individually.

The mastermind group can be structured many
different ways. You can meet in person if practical.
You can meet via teleconferences or web casts.  You
can meet once a week, once a month, or even
once a year.  How and how often you meet depends
upon what's practical and what is needed to keep the
all group members on-target.  The structure is very

There is a lot of literature available of joining or
locating a mastermind group.  I personally belong
to 4 separate groups... each with a slightly different
purpose.  I located or formed these groups by
exchanging emails with like-minded individuals. I
also met several members of my mastermind groups
at conferences.  The face-to-face interaction
confirmed that the chemistry was right.  What is
critical is that the groups purpose be very clear to
each member, and that the group adhere to that

How do you, find or join a mastermind group,
and begin achieving much more than you ever could
individually?  I would begin by asking those I
frequently communicate with if they would like to
work together on projects or form a group.  I would
also approach someone I admired or  respected and
seek their advice.  If they were not part of a mastermind
group open to new members, they could probably point
you in the right direction.  They may also be open to
serving as a coach or mentor for you.

Working closely with and contributing to a mastermind
group has been a big part of my success and that of all of
my very successful acquaintances. It's one of those
obvious things you can't afford to overlook.  Begin
seeking out and cultivating relationships today.  Instead
of going it alone, learn to harness the incredible power
of the mastermind!

Willie Crawford is a recognized internet marketing
expert.  He is the organizer of the Internet Marketing
How To Workshop, which completely steps you
through the process of creating and marketing your
own products.  The workshop brings together experts
who have developed many highly successful products
to show you step-by-step.  Get more details at:



=====================Joke of the Day   (1)===============

Late one night during bad weather, the following was heard
over the radio at an airport control tower:

Helicopter Pilot: "Tower, I'm holding at 3000 over Heli-pad 1."

Second voice: "NO!!! You can't be doing that! I'm holding
at 3000 over that pad!"

There was a brief moment of silence.

First voice again: "You idiot! You're my CO-PILOT!"

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